For me, one of the things that added to the immersion factor in early EQ was the lack of maps (in game) because it forced you to actually learn the vast world of Antonica. If I were in West Freeport and needed to go to Permaforst, I had to know how to get there and be willing to spend a couple hours of game time running there. It was something you planned for the day before, knowing that's what you get done tomorrow and when tomorrow got there you logged in and started running:
East Commons to West Commons
West commons to Kithicor
Kithicor to High Pass
High Pass to East Karana
East Karana to North Karana
North Karana to Qeynos Hills
Qeynos Hills to Everfrost
Everfrost to Permafrost
And, yeah, I did just do that from memory and I think thats kinda the point. Once they added the in-game map and made ports/travel almost instant you saw more and more people /OOCing " How do I get Here, How do I get there". You know, nobody seemed to know how to get around the corner, let alone across town, if you want to put it in real life terms. If I want to go from my house to my mothers house and visit for the day, I know it's a 2 hour drive there and I don't have to get out a map to get there and I think the lack of maps brought type reality to game. It's something I think every game since has been lacking in immersion factor.
Lacking a minimap IMO should be in the game entirely, not just on an immersion server. Because I agree it adds a huge chunk of what made the original EQ so immersive for people, you learned landmarks and wall hugging to get to places, or simply went about it logically "If I keep going right, I HAVE TO hit the zone sooner or later". Not to mention, it added one more thing for people to be social about, "can someone tell me/show me how to get to ____ "
But I understand that it seems widely considered "too much" for newer gamers, sadly.
One of the things for me that kept me on my toes in EQ after , of course, having to have water and food, was the random spawns. I could never find a safe spot to just leave my pc for 5 minutes unless i was in town. I could be in the most remote area and I swear as soon as i sat down for a few minutes a mob would walk by from out of no where and kill me. I even tried in ocean of tears, and I will be darn if I wasn't eaten by that big fish. That was awesome I loved it :)
How about this for an immersion server. Communication acted realistically. (third party software such as ventrillo or teamspeak would obviously not attend to these rules) but the chat box and first party voip would be affected.
No 'private' /tells first off. This would mean that if you are near 2 or more other players and you didn't want anyone else to hear what you are saying then you just send a private /tell to some specific person and nobody else hears you. Real life doesn't work like that. The players would have to talk in /say for example where everyone nearby could listen in. BUT this could make learning languages have purpose again where if you didn't want others to understand what you are saying to your friend then you could talk in a different language and hope the odd person out doesn't understand that language. This also would eliminate /group and /guild chat.
If you are talking to someone via the chat box then you have to be near each other. No sending private tells to people who are 6 zones away or chatting amongst guildmates in /guild chat zones apart. An in-game feature like phones or some form of magical ability to communicate to people over long distances could be created and/or implemented.
Just a thought
NoobieDoo said:
How about this for an immersion server. Communication acted realistically. (third party software such as ventrillo or teamspeak would obviously not attend to these rules) but the chat box and first party voip would be affected.
No 'private' /tells first off. This would mean that if you are near 2 or more other players and you didn't want anyone else to hear what you are saying then you just send a private /tell to some specific person and nobody else hears you. Real life doesn't work like that. The players would have to talk in /say for example where everyone nearby could listen in. BUT this could make learning languages have purpose again where if you didn't want others to understand what you are saying to your friend then you could talk in a different language and hope the odd person out doesn't understand that language. This also would eliminate /group and /guild chat.
If you are talking to someone via the chat box then you have to be near each other. No sending private tells to people who are 6 zones away or chatting amongst guildmates in /guild chat zones apart. An in-game feature like phones or some form of magical ability to communicate to people over long distances could be created and/or implemented.
Just a thought
While that could be cool in some games, it would be too detrimental to an MMORPG like Pantheon. Its taking a game that will already require a great deal of cooperation and making it even harder to do so. People will resort to "cheating" the server by communicating outside of game in order to get anything done.
Dullahan said:
While that could be cool in some games, it would be too detrimental to an MMORPG like Pantheon. Its taking a game that will already require a great deal of cooperation and making it even harder to do so. People will resort to "cheating" the server by communicating outside of game in order to get anything done.
It would be VERY easy to get around this just by using teamspeak or vent or whatever. I mainly liked the idea for the prospect of making languages useful and meaningful again. :D
NoobieDoo said:
Dullahan said:
While that could be cool in some games, it would be too detrimental to an MMORPG like Pantheon. Its taking a game that will already require a great deal of cooperation and making it even harder to do so. People will resort to "cheating" the server by communicating outside of game in order to get anything done.
It would be VERY easy to get around this just by using teamspeak or vent or whatever. I mainly liked the idea for the prospect of making languages useful and meaningful again. :D
I really like the idea of no common tongue, and having to learn languages, but they were just a fun sort of mini-game in EQ and I'm not sure how well it would work on a server where learning languages was imperative. Being able to communicate is of the utmost importance, so how do you make learning languages fun and challenging enough without it standing in the way of people actually playing the game? On the other hand, if you make it easy enough that it doesn't take long to master a new language, why even implement such a system to begin with?
In ArcheAge there was a system of learning the opposing factions language by hiring a tutor. It required that you gave the tutor a text to teach you, and could only be done once every 4 RL hours I believe. I guess if there were a few ways to accomplish the goal of learning language it could work, but it would take some thought if its going to be implemented in a meaningful way.
Lokkan said:
Lacking a minimap IMO should be in the game entirely, not just on an immersion server. Because I agree it adds a huge chunk of what made the original EQ so immersive for people, you learned landmarks and wall hugging to get to places, or simply went about it logically "If I keep going right, I HAVE TO hit the zone sooner or later". Not to mention, it added one more thing for people to be social about, "can someone tell me/show me how to get to ____ "
But I understand that it seems widely considered "too much" for newer gamers, sadly.
There definitely better not be a minimap, it's very immersion breaking.
If they could have a main map system that does NOT show your location other than what zone/area you are in, and then you can hover over with mouse and see adjacent areas, but never see a map of the zone, only a topographical representation of the zones, that would be ideal. It must not be able to zoom in to just your zone and show you where you are in it, this is terrible for explorers and immersion, it makes you feel like the world is already discovered, when it may not be.
Putting fog over undiscovered areas ala WoW is just not good enough either.
Rallyd said:
Lokkan said:
Lacking a minimap IMO should be in the game entirely, not just on an immersion server. Because I agree it adds a huge chunk of what made the original EQ so immersive for people, you learned landmarks and wall hugging to get to places, or simply went about it logically "If I keep going right, I HAVE TO hit the zone sooner or later". Not to mention, it added one more thing for people to be social about, "can someone tell me/show me how to get to ____ "
But I understand that it seems widely considered "too much" for newer gamers, sadly.
There definitely better not be a minimap, it's very immersion breaking.
If they could have a main map system that does NOT show your location other than what zone/area you are in, and then you can hover over with mouse and see adjacent areas, but never see a map of the zone, only a topographical representation of the zones, that would be ideal. It must not be able to zoom in to just your zone and show you where you are in it, this is terrible for explorers and immersion, it makes you feel like the world is already discovered, when it may not be.
Putting fog over undiscovered areas ala WoW is just not good enough either.
How about no map or minimap BUT in town you can study maps at a cartographer or war room or something. So there are maps in the game for you to look at, but you can't take them with you on your travels.
Or maybe you can buy maps to certain areas but when you look at them it takes up the whole screen like the old school spellbook in EQ. I think that would make for great immersion.
But I agree that you shouldn't see a little arrow that represents your location. You should have to look for landmarks and know which direction you're facing to figure out where you are.
...
There could even be a cartography tradeskill. The better you get at it the more accurate your maps are and the more noteworthy info they reveal. But you have to actually explore locations to map them. Just an interesting afterthought I had.
I would definitely play on this server! Great idea(s).
Oh and no /loc plz :P
I wouldn't play on a server that locks your mouse wheel into first person view. I like third person I like having peripheral vision..and to see if something is coming at me from behind. First person for me would only be good if I was placing items in my humble abode, or crafting. :)
I really like the idea of playing in first person. I did that a lot when EQ first came out. In theory, I think you've got a great concept for a immersion server, but I think one thing would hold it back: some people get motion sickness when playing first-person mode. I know quite a few people who can't stand to play any game in first-person mode, and not because of in-game reasons. If there was only one dedicated immersion server, I don't think you'd be able to have a first-person only rule for that reason. Now, if it got to a point where there were multiple immersion servers, that would be a great variation ruleset.
I can see this happening, especially since EQ evolved to have many different types of servers with different rule sets.
Happytrees ... would you be willing to compromise and have a first-person "recommended" immersion server instead of "required" to start? (Not that either one of us can wave a wand and make this so ... lol ... you know, in theroy would you?)
Sorry to Necro but I would really like this server. Modded Immersion skyrim was plenty of fun. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/searchresults/?src_cat=78 if you wanna search it and try to find interesting, immersive ideas.
Hopefully between VR's hired statistician and their attempt to test this server out (maybe as a vote or in beta?) the immersion server will get lots of support.
To those of you saying you don't like some immersive feature because it's hard I have bad news: immersion makes things realistic. Adventuring in real life would probably be really difficult, and suck.
That said, first persion view, which many people seem to have worries about, could be made still more immersive and yet less harsh by letting you right click to turn your head (and look down to see your feet!)
I've seen a few immersive things around this forum:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2594/death-to-the-auction-house Auction houses and bazaars allow you to sell things without being there, like a soda machine. Does immersion allow soda machines?
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5218/user-interface-restrictions this poster had some great ideas about UI and it's effects on immersion
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5125/betray-your-race-option i havent looked at it, but the name probably says it all, a harsher faction system could definately be seen as more immersive.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2087/let-s-talk-death-penalty pick some of the harsher ones for moar immersion=)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2769/in-game-languages This has been mentioned in this thread but no common language would make things exciting. I would prefer a method where you pick a few languages beyond your racial language and have to learn the others thru books/quests/guildmaster lessons.
Beyond those, I like the idea of limiting the stacking of items (or just making them heavier), more realistic consumption of food and drink, and crit rewards like stuns or less useful limbs https://saveversus.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/crit-charts-5th-edition-dd/,
To be honest I don't really like the idea of an energy bar beyond "it's hard to jump". Some classes would need it more than others, and it seems like casters would just rock unless you put not-so-realistic physical energy penalties to spell casting.
more stuff:
That's all I got, hope this helps VR to flesh out some ideas about their bestest server=)
P.S. don't forget the rainbows
Aradune said:Kilsin said:
sajbear said:
Kilsin said:We already have a 1st/3rd person view for your character, you can scroll between each view as you desire via the mouse wheel, we will most likely not limit that ability on the primary servers though.
1st person view confirmed!
Lol Brad already said we were having 1st/3rd like EQ/VG ages ago mate :P
Yes. And I like to play in first person most of the time (agree it's better immersion). I usually just switch to 3rd in combat, so I can see a mob coming up behind me and such -- better tactical awareness.
Now, the general idea of an 'immersion' server, however, really appeals to me.
An Immersion Server is something I would be interested in playing, and I would put a lot of time into it as well. Really glad to see Brad/Aradune is intrigued by this, and having spoken to friends, they too would be all over an immersion type server over a regular ruleset server
I've come across a few more things:
First, in the forums https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5317/seasons-and-climate-zones It'd be difficult to implement I suspect, but so far as realism goes, this is realistic.
Second, https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5318 ;, where it is suggested that crafting not involve blatantly stealing crops from some poor farmer. Even a law/police system is mentioned, though such a thing may have been mentioned before (I havent seen it)
Finally, from my brother who doesn't believe in using forums. What if, in the immersion server only of course, instead of your basic attunement system, weather could be unbearable no matter what after a certain amount of time? If there's a blizzard in an already freezing cold area would your warmth spell+cloak really keep it all back forever? Just an idea for consideration. An unintended side effect to consider as well will be the effect on camps though, if the campers have to leave every now and again to cool down/warm up.
P.S. is this double posting? I'm not terribly comfortable with the definition, but I believe since a few posts have been made editing my previous post isnt the thing to do? Sorry if I'm wrong.
I would totally be down for a special server like this... Something that has some forced restrictions that applies to everyone.
My only issue is, I usually really get into one character at a time, I am pretty intense and completely get into the character. So it may be hard for me to switch between toons like that.
But, if the servers were populated enough, maybe that could be my main.
Let's see what becomes...
