Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

What are your hooks?

    • 753 posts
    January 20, 2015 9:38 AM PST

    This is a companion post of sorts to Jason's "Logging in for the first time" post.  It's different than his - or maybe an extension of his, I don't know.  His posts get me thinking... so sue me.

     

    Anyway - what I want to know, is AFTER you have logged in for the first time, what will get you to log in a second time?  What is the hook in that first play session?  What is the hook for the first week that will get you to log in a second week?

     

    You see - I have always felt that those first experiences in an MMO - ESPECIALLY today when there are so many out there competing for player's attention - are absolutely critical in holding a player base for more than their first 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 2 days, or 30 days free - OR, in the case of Pantheon - past whatever the free trial avatar level is.

     

    Mine is actually a mix of four things.  One is not necessarily most important or least important - I have no set "balance" of these things... and if a couple are missing, I'd be a little disappointed - but that might not be enough to make me stop playing either.  I'd just need to see enough of the others to keep me excited.

     

    My things are:

     

    1)  Give me a purpose.  I want to have a reason for being there.  It doesn't have to be the same purpose I will have at level 50... but it has to be something compelling enough for me to "feel" like I need to (want to) be there.  In short, I want to feel important to something within the game.

     

    2)  Give me an enemy.  I LOVE having someone / something to hate in an MMO.  This can be a race (like the orcs in Greater Faydark).  This can also be one single mob (like my good buddy Grimfeather in North Karana) - I absolutely want to hate something enough in game to want to go cause it harm... repeatedly...  This hate (by design) would be caused by that something causing me harm... repeatedly...

     

    3)  Make my first looks at the imagery of the world compelling.  That is, I want the stuff around me to have "hints of cool" - so that in my imagination I can take flights of fancy over how cool the higher level stuff MUST be - making me want to stick around to see it.  Don't show me too much cool right away - because if you do, then the rest of the world will just seem ordinary. 

     

    4)  Show me a little gameplay mechanics.  By a little, I mean a little.  I don't want a tutorial trying to show me everything.  In the early going, I just want to have a glimpse of where it's all headed - enough to think "ok, this seems to work" as opposed to "dear GOD, this sucks"  I just want gameplay to feel sort of natural at this point, not clunky.

     

    I guess if you summed that up, I want an emotional tie (purpose and an enemy), and I want my curiosity piqued (a sorta cool looking world that seems like it might be fun to play)

     

    What will your "hooks" be?  How long does the game have to get those hooks into you?

    • 610 posts
    January 20, 2015 10:10 AM PST

    To be honest at this point...

    No ! above peoples heads

    No pop up screens telling me to move I have to push A S D W to move

    Dont hold my hand, let me learn the world

    The best thing EQ did was just left us alone...Heres a note, have at it.

     

    • 999 posts
    January 20, 2015 10:14 AM PST

    Dying to a large rat, having to recover my corpse naked, and feeling the sense of achievement after that large rat is no longer breathing.  The challenge and sense of achievement is incorporated at level 1.

    • 724 posts
    January 20, 2015 10:29 AM PST

    "You have become better at XYZ (123)!"

    "You have learned ability XYZ!"

    Yeah, I know. I'm simple. But I just love to see those messages telling me that I've become better at something, or learned something new. That visible display of progress. Also the great feeling when I got a nice new piece of equipment. So, I guess I am a sort of achiever in that way :)

    I also love to go out on my own, and discover the world. Yeah, Pantheon is all about grouping, but I hope that it will also be possible to explore the world alone (while trying to avoid combat wherever possible...invis anyone? ;)

     

  • January 20, 2015 10:32 AM PST

    My hook was the people. Having MS, and at the time, I was home bound with no one to talk to. Kids were at school and  hubby, ( no ex) was working. Partially paralyzed and majorly depressed hell till my brother introduced EQ to me. Then high elf wizzie Drakonrose was born.  Three years later Keaganna dark elf cleric emerged. The game gave me an escape from my hell of a reality. Now it is a way to meet people from places I do not get to travel. It is where Sogo and I got to know each other. The hook is not about the game play, it is about the life of the game. It is about the people at the other end of the character you see. It is about the connection you make with someone. Because you never know when that person may be the "person" you spend the rest of you life with, or the person who becomes a friend for life.

    Gamers are their own unique type of circle. We can find each other in the strangest of dungeons.

    • 308 posts
    January 20, 2015 12:49 PM PST

    I want the game to feel like a world. i want it to feel big and endless, populated with friends, enemies, and that guy that you dont particularly like but can still get along with! I do not want the feeling that the whole world is on pause just waiting for me to be the friggin Messiah, that is for single player games.

     

    i want to see constant progress on my character. even the "You got better at ..." messages serve this purpose.

     

    i want to be able to differentiate my halfling druid from the next halfling druid

     

    these are the things that will keep me logging in time and again


    This post was edited by Gawd at January 21, 2015 11:35 AM PST
    • 753 posts
    January 20, 2015 1:11 PM PST
    DrakonroseThornmender said:

    My hook was the people. Having MS, and at the time, I was home bound with no one to talk to. Kids were at school and  hubby, ( no ex) was working. Partially paralyzed and majorly depressed hell till my brother introduced EQ to me. Then high elf wizzie Drakonrose was born.  Three years later Keaganna dark elf cleric emerged. The game gave me an escape from my hell of a reality. Now it is a way to meet people from places I do not get to travel. It is where Sogo and I got to know each other. The hook is not about the game play, it is about the life of the game. It is about the people at the other end of the character you see. It is about the connection you make with someone. Because you never know when that person may be the "person" you spend the rest of you life with, or the person who becomes a friend for life.

    Gamers are their own unique type of circle. We can find each other in the strangest of dungeons.

    I'm just quoting this because I found it poignant.  I do agree that the escape to the virtual world can be quite cathartic.  I also know from experience that the virtual can extend to the real.  Friendships formed in game in some cases transcend the game. 

     

    I enjoyed reading your post - I agree that people are one hell of a hook - and I hope you find in Pantheon what you found in EQ  :) 

    • 453 posts
    January 20, 2015 1:17 PM PST

    Having real tactics and strategy does it for me. I hate classes that just button mash as abilities refresh and classes where you are always going to hit the exact same abilities in the exact same order every fight. I want lots of tools in my arsenal but lots of reasons that I *need* those tools, I want to have to stay on my toes and adapt to ever fluid situations. 

     

    Class diversity and each class bringing something to the table that they are wanted for something only they can bring. 

     

    Real Challenge. 

     

    And some fluff : A special sound when you level up as awesomely cool as the EQ1 ding LOL 

    I'm a sucker for emotes and the sounds that go with them too. On my female halflings,gnomes and goblins the sounds they made in VG with /warcry and /stomp were priceless for me and never got old lol. 

    A world that feels huge. A world that feels alive. 

     

    In EQ1 oddly enough I still LOVE the old school sounds it makes when you cast a shield spell or cast an invis spell. Addicting sounds ftw. Addicting music FTW.  

     

    Night and day cycles with weather. Snow. 

    Dungeons that are creatively cool, not just endless tunnels of stuff to kill. 

     

    I have tons more, but I have already said too much :P 


    This post was edited by Jason at January 21, 2015 11:08 AM PST
    • 311 posts
    January 20, 2015 4:10 PM PST

    Short and sweet you all said it very well so no need to say any more.

  • January 21, 2015 11:10 AM PST

    Sevens and Raiden said it all pretty much.  I'd add one more thing to their list.  I log in (dwarf of course) and there I am in character in an area obviously inhabited by dwarves as per building, 'attitude', decor, and the like.  It needs to tell me, "You are home".

    • 1019 posts
    August 19, 2019 12:43 PM PDT

    As long as the game play isn't wonky and controls aren't difficult.  I will give almost any game more than one try.

    To get me "hooked" though will mean that a game is engaging and interesting to me.  Do I want to spend more time here, do I want to get to that next milestone, do I want to work for it?  Am I enjoying it?  Same games are yes, some are no.  I recenlty tried to play Wow (live version) and I just couldn't bring myself to log in.  The game was dull and I had no desire to log in and "play" I didn't feel like I was actually doing anything when I logged in.

    • 752 posts
    August 19, 2019 1:14 PM PDT

    I want to explore is my first thing. Then i want to find out about my class. So a really good lore as to why i picked my class or why my class exists should be there. I usually try to level as fast as possible so i can explore more. My main drive has generally been exploration. 

    • 1860 posts
    August 19, 2019 1:28 PM PDT

    My "hooks" are always about gaining substantial upgrades to my character's power.  

    At first it is usually about gaining better skills/spells.  After awhile that tends to transition to gaining better gear as the substantial upgrades of power through skill/spell acquisition starts to slow.


    This post was edited by philo at August 19, 2019 1:38 PM PDT
    • 542 posts
    August 19, 2019 1:39 PM PDT

    I think class progression ,Alternate advancement paths

    Builds where there is not 1 right build and all other skills are useless

    Deep character & outfit customization.Places I long to revisit again & challenges still waiting

     

    • 945 posts
    August 19, 2019 1:47 PM PDT

    My initial hook would be if I can have a sense of identity (character customization, immersion in my character's "concept" (race/class combo).  This will get me to come back for several days/weeks to vet the following points:

    The gameplay must be tangible (press a button - avatar reacts), but this isn't neccessarily a "hook" as much as a neccessity for me to obtain the level of immersion that I would want, but also this isn't something that could be determined in a few days of gameplay.

    Ongoing hooks:  I would need to feel like either 1. my role in groups is essential/desired or 2. I must be able to solo efficiently enough to make progress solo.  If neither of these 2 are fulfilled for me I typically don't stick around regardless of character customization, immersion or tangibility (or nostalgia).  One of these 2 are the absolute hooks for me that will keep me logging in day after day.

    The carrot on the stick for me is "progression" (vertical or horizontal).  If I can't "progress" because my class is undesireable for groups and I cannot solo, there is no progression being made and I find it difficult to justify my time not progressing (especially when paying a subscription, time is literally money).

     

    • 2419 posts
    August 19, 2019 2:02 PM PDT

    Wandidar said:

    Anyway - what I want to know, is AFTER you have logged in for the first time, what will get you to log in a second time?  What is the hook in that first play session?  What is the hook for the first week that will get you to log in a second week?

    What will your "hooks" be?  How long does the game have to get those hooks into you?

    Frankly, the first hook is to get the value out of all the money I've spent on this game to-date.

    After that it will be all about gameplay.  Is it engaging?  Is it interesting?  Am I challenged? Am I seeing my character growing in appropriate steps as I level? 

    Each one of these is not, on an individual basis something that would cause me to quit, but if most or all of them start to fail then I would be walking away from this.

    • 2756 posts
    August 19, 2019 2:15 PM PDT

    Original post was 2015, but it is an interesting one so...

    For me it's about having been able to build a character I'm satisfied with.  It looks good and the lore of the start zone is interesting.

    Also that the class skills are intreguing.  I don't expect a lot from playing the first session, but I like to feel like there is potential for interesting abilities and synergy with others.

    • 20 posts
    August 20, 2019 9:36 AM PDT

    For an MMORPG it is different than what I expect from other games.

    I want to see a sprawling landscape ready to be explored.  I want to be challenged by the lower level mobs, and for it to be downright impossible for me to explore something without additional work into my character.  I want the world to feel immersive and open ended.  If there is information that I need, I hope to come across it within the game organically instead of needing to alt-tab and find it in a wiki.

    I do not want to see popups, quest markers, or tutorials.  If they are minimal I can get past them.. but the surest sign for me to bail on an MMO is for them to have quest markers.  

    What gets me fully engaged into an MMO is the wonder and discovery as I progress.

    • 200 posts
    August 20, 2019 10:48 AM PDT
    Off the top of my head:

    Spell upgrades and unique spells/or specific class defining abilities. I think the one I really aimed for was the ability to turn into a skeleton with my necro. Couldn't wait for that.

    A specific item that I saw and wanted. Gave me a goal to work towards. Early on, the first big item upgrade I really wanted was the Flowing Black Robe that I saw on another necro. I just had to have that.Then I always wanted the Glowing Black Stone.

    Having an important role in my guild as the go to wizard or chanter was cool. I was depended upon.

    Later on, it was being apart of large group hunts (taking down a named for an epic line) or guild raids. From sitting around waiting/chatting to gather everyone and pre planning, to executing the objective.


    • 116 posts
    August 20, 2019 6:08 PM PDT

    Make me think I’m gonna die... and mean it!

    EQ tried to kill you everyday. Death meant something. 

    Scare me, make my virtual well-being matter. 

    Make my failures hurt and my successes all the sweeter. 

    • 368 posts
    August 23, 2019 9:10 AM PDT

    DrakonroseThornmender said:

    My hook was the people. Having MS, and at the time, I was home bound with no one to talk to. Kids were at school and  hubby, ( no ex) was working. Partially paralyzed and majorly depressed hell till my brother introduced EQ to me. Then high elf wizzie Drakonrose was born.  Three years later Keaganna dark elf cleric emerged. The game gave me an escape from my hell of a reality. Now it is a way to meet people from places I do not get to travel. It is where Sogo and I got to know each other. The hook is not about the game play, it is about the life of the game. It is about the people at the other end of the character you see. It is about the connection you make with someone. Because you never know when that person may be the "person" you spend the rest of you life with, or the person who becomes a friend for life.

    Gamers are their own unique type of circle. We can find each other in the strangest of dungeons.

     

    Yes! What has made or broken MMO's in the past for me is the people, the community. Early on in EQ1 we had a robust, generally friendly and helpful community. We were forced to rely on each other for information, buffs, groups to achieve anything and as a result the community flourished. 

    • 26 posts
    August 23, 2019 9:13 AM PDT

    i get hooked from it simply being a new game.

     

    how long i last depends on the gameplay, community, ect.

    • 888 posts
    August 24, 2019 11:42 PM PDT
    First hook for me is the character creator. I want to feel reasonably distinct and have as much creative control and possible. I don't need a million subtle nose / eye sliders but I do want many different faces and especially hair styles. If I can't be creative with my character look / concept / name, I don't get attached and then don't really want to play.

    Second hook is if I have a sense of direction, a basic path to getting started. I don't like getting buried in quests but some initial funneling helps me get to where I know enough and am invested enough.

    Third hook is if I can find a team without already knowing anyone. I hate soloing and I'm not interested in forming the team myself if I'm new (unless it's a brand new game), so I want finding a team to be intuitive. If I can't find teams with any consistency, I'll quickly lose interest and stop playing.
    • 287 posts
    August 25, 2019 7:06 PM PDT

    Two hooks:

    Initially, mystery.  Later on, mastery.

    I want to log into a vast world full of systems that open up as I discover them and tease me with "something greater".  No hand holds, no walk-throughs and no "wizards" to teach me how to play.  Just log in and figure it out, learn how to attack things and defend myself, all while viewing glimpses of grater things off in the distance.  Immediate goals are necessary.

    After learning all about the world and how to thrive in it I'm driven by progression, both lateral and vertical.  Long-term goals like bosses to get deaded, loot to be acquired or races to befriend.  No achievements, please (can't stress that enough). Epic quests, fights that require a guild and progression, even EQ2-style collections to complete.

    Those two things alone can keep me playing for years and years.

    • 238 posts
    August 25, 2019 7:43 PM PDT

    1. The first hook is my character and class. I personally need to feel connected to my character in order to keep playing. This connection for me usually happens during the character creator and advances over time as the character is leveled and the experiences that it goes through. This connection doesn't have to happen right away, but it does have to happen. Bringing in ESO here I leveled a templar up to level 50 and I wasn't able to form a connection to my character. I also tried the other classes that were available and nothing ever spoke to me.

    2. I guess my second hook is that classes have to feel unique and meaningful. I recently played FFXIV and unlike ESO I was able to instantly connect with my character and the various classes in the game. Each class had its own unique style of gameplay and own unique identity. 

    3. My third hook is the world, the lore, the citizens inhabiting the world, and the creatures inhabiting the world. I am not a huge elitist when it comes to graphics but the better the world looks the better the chance of enrapturing players attention.  Lore is highly important to me though I want to know the back story of the characters involved and I want to what events have to lead up to the present issues. Then the citizens and creatures of the world need to be unique. They might not need to have their own unique design, but they need to have unique lore.  

    4. My forth is the leveling experience and grouping. I am not a huge fan of solo based gameplay and I find questing alone to be outright boring. When it comes to most modern MMOs I have found that my preferred leveling method is dungeon running because it is the most engaging with other people. 

    5. My fifth hook is endgame progression and how accessible it is. I don't believe that endgame is only raiding nor does it need to be accessible by everyone, however, what endgame content is and the way to access this needs to be clear. ESO is the only game that I have ever played that had me confused about what their endgame plan was. It wasn't unlocked naturally through the leveling process and it seemed to be locked behind champion levels (which were additional levels past 50). Honestly, I'm not even sure it has any endgame past champion level 160 because that's when gear stops scaling.