TL;DR: I ramble about my concerns on these topics: to many systems, chasing nostalgia, solo vs group play.
Some time has passed, and I have read every comment about the new art style. Clearly a mixed bag, but angry people (me) always seem to have the loudest voice, lol. These are my overall thoughts about the future and current state of the game.
VR has made it clear they needed to pivot to get this project done. We can all accept that. Back in 2014 when we first heard about this game, no one expected it to be only in pre-alpha after a decade. And probably a couple (few?) years away from release. So, again I understand the need to make a drastic change. Obviously, the new art is a lot faster to create then then anything realistic. Even though I really hate the new art, I will set that aside for a moment. I have some other concerns.
The first concern is not the fault of VR. We all remember the glory days of first playing EQ back in 1999. It was amazing. But looking back, it wasn’t amazing because it was such a good game (which is was and still is). It was amazing because it was the first of it’s kind. So, the concern I have is, we are chasing our “first high”. We (I), so badly want to relive the glory days, and we have played every new MMO created and none of them give us the feeling of our “first high”. No matter how good Pantheon is, that feeling will never come back. To be clear, I put myself at fault for chasing an MMO to give me that feeling. Pantheon will not bring back the nostalgia from 24 years ago, though I unfairly expect it to. HaHa.
My next concern is all the systems VR is building. Perception, weather, climbing etc. I am sure these will be cool, and I am looking forward to it. But they seem like a lot of work for a relatively small payout. EQ didn’t have any of that, and we didn’t care. We care about deep character customization (AA points and skill trees), lots of quest, massive world, tons of NPC to interact with, challenging content. Again, I am not saying the Perception system isn’t a good idea. But if I had to choose between graphics and content or the Perception system, I would choose content and graphics every day and twice on Sunday. Also, climbing is in EQ2 and it’s lame. I remember the day it was released, it really added nothing to the game. And this was before flying was an option. Seemed like a waste of development time. And I worry the same thing is happening in Pantheon. Maybe some of these systems should be added in a future expansion. It resources are limited, maybe focus on bigger things.
Solo vs group balance. This is a super difficult balance. EQ2 basically made it’s self a solo game until you get to heroic content. Then you can’t do anything without a group. Some people like it, some people hate it. The problem is, more people solo then group (and it’s not even close). Obviously, those of us that pledged want group play as that’s the point of this game, but that won’t appeal to a large crowd. Unfortunately, most people that play MMO’s these days solo. WoW, and FF14 are far and away the 2 biggest MMO’s and they both have mostly solo play with a group finder that puts you in group for a super quick dungeon run. So, my concern is, I don’t think VR can fix this. I just think this is the world we live in. This is why I think the only way Pantheon is successful is by catering to the niche crowd and just charging us more to so it can maintain profitability.
Thanks for reading my drivel. Would be interested to know the thoughts of others.
Sweety said: The first concern is not the fault of VR. We all remember the glory days of first playing EQ back in 1999. It was amazing. But looking back, it wasn’t amazing because it was such a good game (which is was and still is). It was amazing because it was the first of it’s kind. So, the concern I have is, we are chasing our “first high”. We (I), so badly want to relive the glory days, and we have played every new MMO created and none of them give us the feeling of our “first high”. No matter how good Pantheon is, that feeling will never come back. To be clear, I put myself at fault for chasing an MMO to give me that feeling. Pantheon will not bring back the nostalgia from 24 years ago, though I unfairly expect it to. HaHa.
Totally agree. I've worried about this for myself, whether any game will really be what I want it to be. Guess I'll have to wait and see.
My next concern is all the systems VR is building... climbing is in EQ2 and it’s lame. I remember the day it was released, it really added nothing to the game. And this was before flying was an option. Seemed like a waste of development time. And I worry the same thing is happening in Pantheon.
I've experienced it. Climbing is awesome. You can climb almost everywhere, it's like turning a 2 dimensional game into a 3 dimensional game. The strategy of exploring a new area without dying to that scary looking spawn in the middle of it is expanded enormously. That's just my opinion, I hope it helps :)
Solo vs group balance. This is a super difficult balance. EQ2 basically made it’s self a solo game until you get to heroic content. Then you can’t do anything without a group. Some people like it, some people hate it. The problem is, more people solo then group (and it’s not even close). Obviously, those of us that pledged want group play as that’s the point of this game, but that won’t appeal to a large crowd. Unfortunately, most people that play MMO’s these days solo. WoW, and FF14 are far and away the 2 biggest MMO’s and they both have mostly solo play with a group finder that puts you in group for a super quick dungeon run. So, my concern is, I don’t think VR can fix this. I just think this is the world we live in. This is why I think the only way Pantheon is successful is by catering to the niche crowd and just charging us more to so it can maintain profitability.
There's been an ongoing feedback loop in modern games, that got us to this point where most games and players are solo focused. Which is to say, it's not just a freely chosen preference of most players. If Pantheon is really good at release, I think it will entice many people who are used to soloing to try it. Maybe Panth will fail, maybe not. Nothing is guaranteed. (I personally would be fine with paying more than usual for my subscription if Panth turns out to be as fun as I hope it will)
Jothany said:My next concern is all the systems VR is building... climbing is in EQ2 and it’s lame. I remember the day it was released, it really added nothing to the game. And this was before flying was an option. Seemed like a waste of development time. And I worry the same thing is happening in Pantheon.I've experienced it. Climbing is awesome. You can climb almost everywhere, it's like turning a 2 dimensional game into a 3 dimensional game. The strategy of exploring a new area without dying to that scary looking spawn in the middle of it is expanded enormously. That's just my opinion, I hope it helps :)
Yes, thanks. I just know in EQ2 climbing is a useless skill. Glad to hear it has value in Pantheon.
Point 1 - you can't go home again. Very true. Nostalgia will get us to support development and to try the game. Only a game that is at least reasonably good and at least reasonably attractive will get us to stay longer than a few months.
Point 2 - number of systems to be developed. VR really *really* needs someone at the top in charge of cracking the whip to try and force development to meet a schedule and meet a budget and get to release with whatever good features can be crammed in and *without* whatever good features cannot be accomodated by the available time and money. I hope they have such a person and he or she is ruthless and demanding enough. I hope the art decision is evidence of such. I have to say that hope does not necessarily equate to belief.
Point 3 - group emphasis. Going back to well before Brad passed away VR agreed in at least some communications that a game that was purely group-focused or even 90% group-focused was unlikely to succeed and they did not intend to release such. The goal was to have a game that was a lot *more* group-focused than is normal today (a really low bar I might add) but also one that had a significant amout of solo play. Firstly to attract a much larger player-base, some but not all of whom would decide that they really did like to play in groups, and secondly to give even the true groupies something to do when grouping was not feasible due to lack of uninterrupted play time.
What was exceedingly unclear was, and is, how they intended to do this. Having an extensive solo quest chain leading from character creation to maximum level - no. Having some quests and tasks that could be done solo in all level ranges and some enemies that could be handled solo in all level ranges - perhaps. Relying purely on characters fighting "group" enemies by being many levels higher, but still getting enough experience and loot to keep them interested in the game and playing - perhaps.
I have read so many concerns about the amount of systems Pantheon has. I have also read plenty of folks complaining that other MMOS feel the same as the ones they previously played. VR believes(and I STRONGLY support this view) that for them to have a chance vs all the other MMOS out there, they have to stand apart form those other games and offer a unique experience. Having the same basic systems like EQ will not help them to keep folks. Especially when Daybreak might make an EQ3. Why play a "basic" Pantheon when you can play EQ3 with a full time staff and 30+ million in budget? They have to stand out from the other games...simply.
Focusing too much on solo play is the reason why I have left so many other MMOS. It breeds a mindset that I don't care for and has led to me leaving my favorite MMO. Most MMOS are designed for solo play. Please be mindful that I'm a mostly solo player myself. But, I will gladly make a sincere effort to change my playstyle to be in a group centric community that values taking their time to level, favors exploration and community over meta and all the other 'horrors' of modern MMOS. Yes, I know some of that will creep in regardless, but it won't be the norm like it is in solo focus MMOS.
I look forward to playing a new old style MMO and enjoying the experience(however long that lasts) before folks have enough vested time in the game to ruin it with their endless demands and whining trying to change it into something that resembles the SAME game they left for the reason they will try to make this game into(crazy stuff).