Probably not. You know, these puzzle questions remind me of Bilbo Baggins and Gollum in the cave. I probably would not have played Everquest if not for reading the Hobbit prior. To answer the question: what I like the best are tedious, complex, and challenging quests similar to how epics were. Such that most will not attempt nor complete them. And other quests ofc, not of that scale. But, they (the tedious, complex ones) should be there.
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Static puzzles you learn once then never have to think about again are often not worth the effort to code. If you have puzzles the solutions should be constantly changing.
Puzzles should always have a work around if you cannot solve it. For example a logic towers of hanoi type puzzle could get you through a locked door. If you cannot solve the puzzle you could still go around the door by passing through a dozen spawn points or so but it would take longer which would be important on timed quests.
Idealy every challenge would have a combat solution, skill solution and a puzzle solution. Which one you choose will be based on your abilities in each. Realistically that’s more for table top RPGs rather than a programed MMO that is intended to be use by 10,000s of people a month. Making puzzles fit and flow will depend heavily on world and challenge design.
Puzzle types:
Spatial reasoning: Towers of Hanoi
Logic Puzzles: Math story problems
Riddles: Lore keeper driven answers or player knowledge
Scavenger Hunts: List of objects to make a McGuffin that could change each time
Timed movement that changes over time: Tomb Raider
Ability Swapping combat puzzles: Karazhan Chess Board raid encounter.
Kilsin said: Puzzles - Do you like solving in-game puzzles and if so, what types of puzzles do you like the best or consider the most enjoyable/challenging? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters
No, not at all. A puzzle is only ever a puzzle once and that is only if nobody else has come across it or hasn't plastered it's solution across a thousand websites. Basically they are nothing more than an annoyance
I do like solving problems in MMO's, not sure how most people are defining puzzle though. Getting hints about the location of soemthing and then finding it is a fun puzzle to me.
Getting hints about what an npc wants me to go kill, or find and bring back, and then figuring that out is fun for me.
Being in a dungeon and having to step on certain squares in a certain order that can only be solved by guess and check...not so much. Maybe that answers my question. I like any puzzle that can be solved using logic. I do not like puzzles that can only be solved by guess and check.
Vandraad said:Kilsin said: Puzzles - Do you like solving in-game puzzles and if so, what types of puzzles do you like the best or consider the most enjoyable/challenging? #MMORPG #CommunityMattersNo, not at all. A puzzle is only ever a puzzle once and that is only if nobody else has come across it or hasn't plastered it's solution across a thousand websites. Basically they are nothing more than an annoyance
Come on, Mr Grumpy! It doesn't have to be that way at all.
Some puzzles have near infinite possible solutions, depending on random seeds, or just huge possibilities depending on some 'setup' configuration. Some puzzles can even be... I hate to say it... competitive! Involving other players adds a dynamic element also.
Yes, it would be best if whatever is included isn't stuff that min/maxers can't brute force with big stats any lazy folks can't just look up in a Wiki, but that leaves a ton of fun possibilities.
Conceptually, I'm thinking of the Pantheon equivalent of Tetris, I guess. Fit shapes together to complete lines, but the shapes are provided in random order and you might even not be able to make a line, depending on what is provided.
I would love to see some that require group coordination, perhaps under a time pressure, involving location, actions, kills, emotes, etc, etc.
Randomly dropped scrolls that need deciphering (in-game languages even!). Contents could refer to (and trigger) rare monster spawns to kill (that will have a chance to drop further scrolls?) or places to visit (that are possibly dangerous) and tasks to perform at those places.
There are so many fun possibilities all of which can have varying or even random elements. Pantheon Treasure (quite literally) hunts and scavenger hunts would be great fun (and encourage a horizontal use of zones?...)
I would also like to see some 'elaborate' Easter Egg style puzzles in game... Those are great for the community to discover and solve together.
Kalok said:Kilsin said: Puzzles - Do you like solving in-game puzzles and if so, what types of puzzles do you like the best or consider the most enjoyable/challenging? #MMORPG #CommunityMattersYou did this one about a year or so ago.
Not even that, it was two months ago.
Kilsin, please try to use existing threads my friend. ;)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/11883/do-you-like-solving-in-game-puzzles
Physical puzzles? 3 people to pull the right levers at the same time to open doors.. hell yeah. In game proc clues to provide morphing configurations of the levers’ combination...please more
Why is it most mmo dungeons are a run-through and super linear? Puzzles help with depth, immersion, and gameplay. Sure, I’ll memorize it all someday..shall we then request expansions? PRotF 2?
I like the idea of any proc stuff...especially Easter egg style and events like @Disposalist suggested
Also I like the idea @Counterfleche suggested. That reminds me of the hacking and archaeology puzzles in Eve
Kilsin said: Puzzles - Do you like solving in-game puzzles and if so, what types of puzzles do you like the best or consider the most enjoyable/challenging? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters
I had a little flashback here: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2457/in-game-puzzles/view/page/1
But I'll recap my reply.
Yes I like just about all of them.
I really enjoyed how Dungeons and Dragons Online provides them. A puzzle here and there between fights goes a long way. Or it makes sense when it's tied into the lore of the region or cultural history.
Puzzles make the most sense for me when it's not accessable to all. Why else would you put in a puzzle? For example only a true dwarf can obtain the ancient forgotten dwarvish dialect. So to get passed the puzzle or the benefit from the puzzle, a group would need a dwarf. (notice that I'm not requesting a class specific puzzle)
In crafting you can add a lot of puzzles.
The most enjoyable puzzles are those that have a sequencial consequence. Challenging would be to really demand indepth knowledge about something or linked to a lethal danger. I like when I need to pratice, get lucky or time my actions (or even better; coordinate within a group) in order to complete a puzzle.
I see mysteries as something different, so I won't go into that. With riddles, again, not everyone should be able to solve it. This could be linked to a timer mechanism of some sort. And on a fail, they would have to take the long run around or something. Or possibly get aided by someone who's gotten passed. But it should never allow people porting each other past a puzzle.
I would even like puzzles that I couldn't solve at all or for a very long time. This is another method to connect players and create that interdepence.
To me, the best puzzles in MMO's is not being told exactly where to go for a quest =P. I also like stitching together the bits of lore to get a bigger scope of the world, this doesn't come with any reward other than satisfaction but it's fun to do. Also, I do enjoy Labyrinth-like dungeons, loved getting lost in Kaesora in eq1.
In Dungeon and Dragons Online (DDO), I had a love-hate relationship with some of the adventures that incorporated puzzle mechanics to complete the adventure. I hated them till I figured them out then I loved doing the adventures and bringing others into the adventure to show them how to complete (or do the solo parts while the group is still trying to figure out what needs to be done).
I am all for having puzzles in the game as long as they are not everywhere or so obscure that you need to have ancient knowledge memorized due to a time constraint. Not everybody enjoys a good puzzle; however, that does not mean you should not incorporate some puzzles into the game.
I love complex hidden puzzles, especially the large scale ones that might take several months for the community to solve. Cryptic letters, odd scribblings on walls or trees, rumours you catch while evesdropping on npcs, peculiar landscapes hidden in plain sight... Should all add up to (a) huge global puzzle(s), even if purely lore related. Small puzzles that might provide a shortcut for your group are fun, given there is enough variety and solutions are ever changing as Trasak already mentioned. However, in some cases failure in solving such (optional) puzzles should be coupled to an appropriate risk (a collapsing ceiling forcing your group to take an even longer path as with ignoring the puzzle altogether, an earthquake shaking you of a platform hurting you and setting your groups progress through the dungeon way back, an ambush, death, etc). These short cuts should be significant enough to make it worth the risk, but varying and complex enough to make people think twice about it.
I do very much, I think its lovely when there is a mind bender puzzle in my game, that has to be solved to get to the next bit, preferable with some light fighting to entertain the rest of the party while one person does the puzzle (to meny cooks spoils the food).
I haven't tried the rift once, but i have tried the ddo once, and it's a fine line between a puzzle and an time sink (which we don't want)
Depends on the type of puzzle really. If it is a puzzle such as piecing disparate snippets of lore together from different sources and/or locations/quests/character interactions, or where (in game) research is required to solve, then im all up for it.
I can take or leave switched based puzzles where you have to align pieces/lights. But if its in keeping with the lore or current quest, then thats ok to an extent.
Basically a puzzle that adds to the momentum of a quest, then great, if they are just puzzles existing for the sake of solving? Nah..
tile slider puzzles, no
somewhat intuitive, logic puzzles? yes, because with those if one person "gets" it, and solves it, and explains it, the others "get" it and everyone feels smarter. (three logicians walk into a bar, bartender asks: "would you three like a beer?" First one answers: I don't know, Second one answers: I dont know, Third one answers: Yes! we all want beers! and the others agree vehemently. The first two dont know if all three want beers, they know they do, but dont know if the other two do. The third knows if the first two did not want a beer, they would have said no so he can logically assume they all want a beer and can confidently answer- yes)
"GO" (othello) multi-color where intersections cause blanks that unlock type puzzle resolutions? or 'Portal" sure.
Puzzles that accidentally teach you a RL skill? awesome. Like how to use a compass and landmarks to stay on a heading while moving around lava; or move off the trail, and get back on the trail.
- please contractually bind a quest maker to finish the quest. If you are parceling the work let it be their vision and their baby from start to finish or at least collaborate. none of this half finished or dead end quest stuff.