Forums » The Paladin

Paladin - 'Burning Questions' (Joppa)

    • 246 posts
    November 18, 2019 10:32 PM PST

    1) So far we have seen the Warrior’s (Angering Blow/Angered ‘state’) and the Dire Lord’s (Provoking Phantoms/Nightmare Blood stance) abilities/mechanics on how they will generate aggro. We have yet to see the bread & butter mechanics for how the Paladin intends to generate long-term hate, outside of a critical from Fervent Strike or throwing out Wrathful Aegis (AE). What will be the Paladin’s main aggro generation mechanic that is sustainable?

     

    2) Will stuns generate large (bonus) hate when successful (and unsuccessful)? - Ignore if answered by question #1.

     

    3) In previous MMO’s aggro caused by healing was usually half or a quarter of what damage would be (in terms of 1-to-1 hate), what are the plans for Healing aggro?

     

    4) Will the power gain(s) from facing undead make Paladin’s feel like they will always need to be in undead areas, as to not be less valuable (or desirable)?

     

    5) Will Paladins get a resurrection spell that works outside of combat, that doesn’t require them to sacrifice half of their health pool (Atone)?

     

    6) After seeing Lightguard (If using a two-handed weapon, this ability will increase your chance to Parry), will two-handed weapon tanking be as viable for the Paladin as it is for the Dire Lord?

     

    7) The Paladin’s Edict line of abilities seem pretty strong, will they all share a cooldown or will they be independent of each other?

     

    8) With Golden Strike and Golden Aegis granting Immunity, will you still be able to maintain aggro on creatures you are tanking, or will they momentarily go to the next target on the hate list until the effect ends?

     

    9) Generalized tank question - Is it a goal to have all of the tank classes be similar in damage (DPS) on a single target (assuming gear is equivalent)?

     

     10) Are there plans to increase the number of races that are playable by Paladins (Dark Myr can be clerics for example)?

    • 694 posts
    November 20, 2019 5:54 PM PST

    #10 is a burning question of mine as well.  Paladin is my favorite class, while Dwarves and Halflings are my least favorite races and I find playing Humans rather dull in a magical world that allows you to be mythical species with wonderous abilities.  (I know Halflings are currently not allowed to be Paladins, I am just stating that they are one of my two least favorite races)  Nothing would make me ragequit/uninstall faster than being forced to reluctantly play a Human because Paladin is my favorite class to find out a year later that ANY other race can be a Paladin... on the other side of that same coin, if it is public knowledge that other races will be allowed to be other classes I will happily play something else and wait to make my Paladin until I can be ANY of the races other than Dwarf, Halfling, or Human.

    Putting SO much emphasis on the critical importance of race/class selection only to "secretly" have it change later would make many people absolutely infuriated.  Especially when you consider that making changes like that punishes the loyal followers and rewards the n00bs.  

    • 63 posts
    November 22, 2019 9:11 AM PST

    From the video's that I have seen. It appears that paladin's have a major problem with getting and holding aggro. If my assumptions that are solely based on what I have seen in video's is correct. What are you all going to do to alleviate this problem?

     

     

    • 201 posts
    November 22, 2019 1:07 PM PST

    Vander said:

    From the video's that I have seen. It appears that paladin's have a major problem with getting and holding aggro. If my assumptions that are solely based on what I have seen in video's is correct. What are you all going to do to alleviate this problem?

    Devs have been pointing out in streams for years that the exact numerical value of various abilities and buffs are and will continue to be tweaked as needed. They also tend to suggest that larger numbers of players - as in alpha/beta - will be needed to get good statistics for that job. Since the tank's ability to hold aggro exists in a balance with the amount of hate that the DPS classes can generate, I don't see that they can 'fix' that issue independently from the process of finding 'just the right amount' of damage and thus hate that all the various DPS abilities have. It might even be true that ALL the damage-causing abilities have to be mostly dialed in before they do the final adjustments on the tank classes's hate generation.

    • 246 posts
    November 22, 2019 8:16 PM PST

    @Vander & @Jothany: Re-read my very first question.

     

    1) So far we have seen the Warrior’s (Angering Blow/Angered ‘state’) and the Dire Lord’s (Provoking Phantoms/Nightmare Blood stance) abilities/mechanics on how they will generate aggro. We have yet to see the bread & butter mechanics for how the Paladin intends to generate long-term hate, outside of a critical from Fervent Strike or throwing out Wrathful Aegis (AE). What will be the Paladin’s main aggro generation mechanic that is sustainable?

    • 63 posts
    November 22, 2019 8:16 PM PST

    Jothany said:

    Vander said:

    From the video's that I have seen. It appears that paladin's have a major problem with getting and holding aggro. If my assumptions that are solely based on what I have seen in video's is correct. What are you all going to do to alleviate this problem?

    Devs have been pointing out in streams for years that the exact numerical value of various abilities and buffs are and will continue to be tweaked as needed. They also tend to suggest that larger numbers of players - as in alpha/beta - will be needed to get good statistics for that job. Since the tank's ability to hold aggro exists in a balance with the amount of hate that the DPS classes can generate, I don't see that they can 'fix' that issue independently from the process of finding 'just the right amount' of damage and thus hate that all the various DPS abilities have. It might even be true that ALL the damage-causing abilities have to be mostly dialed in before they do the final adjustments on the tank classes's hate generation.

    I didn't come to Pantheon until March of this year. So I know nothing about "the devs have been pointing it out for years". I haven't even been here one year yet. So thank you for that information. I do my best to watch old video's and listen to old round table discussions. I just never came across this. If I did I don't remember it. Again thank you for this information. I greatly appreciate it.  


    This post was edited by Vander at November 22, 2019 8:17 PM PST
    • 63 posts
    November 22, 2019 8:24 PM PST

    Fragile said:

    @Vander & @Jothany: Re-read my very first question.

     

    1) So far we have seen the Warrior’s (Angering Blow/Angered ‘state’) and the Dire Lord’s (Provoking Phantoms/Nightmare Blood stance) abilities/mechanics on how they will generate aggro. We have yet to see the bread & butter mechanics for how the Paladin intends to generate long-term hate, outside of a critical from Fervent Strike or throwing out Wrathful Aegis (AE). What will be the Paladin’s main aggro generation mechanic that is sustainable?

     

    I know you stated it in #1 on your post. Does that mean I can not second that and also put my point of concern up? Even if it coincide with what you said.So if you say something I can not also say it and basicly agree with you? I do not understand your logic..

    • 246 posts
    November 23, 2019 12:02 AM PST

    Vander said:

    I know you stated it in #1 on your post. Does that mean I can not second that and also put my point of concern up? Even if it coincide with what you said.So if you say something I can not also say it and basicly agree with you? I do not understand your logic..

    You would do something similar to what Darch did.

    • 201 posts
    November 23, 2019 12:14 AM PST

    Fragile said:

    @Vander & @Jothany: Re-read my very first question.

    OK, I read it. NO idea why you wanted me to, but I did.

    I hope it was as good for you as it was for me.

    :)

    • 63 posts
    November 23, 2019 6:33 AM PST

    The title of the "thread" is "Paladin - 'Burning Questions' (Joppa)" and you want to get mad when people post their own question to Joppa if it coincide with what you said. You also want to control-dictate how a person speaks. They got a word for that.... I'm not going there.  

    • 1393 posts
    November 23, 2019 12:21 PM PST

    I think the all "holding aggro" mechanic will be sorted out well before beta comes out, and remember these are only core abilities, and not all their abilities, and i don't see why Fervant Strike has to crit to hold aggro, it creates high threat either way, it just more threat if it does crit, like every ability in every game.

    • 246 posts
    November 23, 2019 5:51 PM PST

    Vander said:

    The title of the "thread" is "Paladin - 'Burning Questions' (Joppa)" and you want to get mad when people post their own question to Joppa if it coincide with what you said. You also want to control-dictate how a person speaks. They got a word for that.... I'm not going there.  

    What you originally said was just a poorly worded version of what I was asking in the first place. It's pretty simple to agree with someone and then state why, without trying to reformulate it into a less eloquent version. ie: I am interested in question #1 myself, from the videos it seemed like the Paladin had major aggro issues compared to the other tanks.

    Riahuf22 said:

    i don't see why Fervant Strike has to crit to hold aggro, it creates high threat either way, it just more threat if it does crit, like every ability in every game.

    Just going directly from the Paladin class page: "If your enemy is stunned, this attack will critically hit and generate a large amount of hate."

    It seems like it applies a bonus hate amount if it crits on a target - outside of normal/critical damage aggro.

     

    • 201 posts
    November 23, 2019 8:00 PM PST

    Vander said:

    Jothany said:

    ....

    I didn't come to Pantheon until March of this year. So I know nothing about "the devs have been pointing it out for years". I haven't even been here one year yet. So thank you for that information. I do my best to watch old video's and listen to old round table discussions. I just never came across this. If I did I don't remember it. Again thank you for this information. I greatly appreciate it.  

    I'm sorry if "the devs have been pointing it out for years" came across as dismissive. It wasn't intended that way when I typed it, but coming back later and reading it, it sounds that way to me now.

    What I should have said is that they've never really made any kind of announcement about it, I've just watched all the gameplay streams (more than once lol) and I've heard a number of occasions - from the earliest streams to recent ones - where some streamer commented on the amount of damage being done. Joppa or Machail would give a quick answer saying what I told you, then the conversation would move on. It was very easy to not catch it, at least until you had watched a few times and were no longer focused on the action.

    Anyway I hope the info is useful.


    This post was edited by Jothany at November 23, 2019 8:02 PM PST
    • 1393 posts
    November 26, 2019 8:26 AM PST

    I understand where you were getting yout line of thinking, i just didn't read it the same way.  I believe it was more trying to decribe an affect it would have if the target was stunned than the actually threat it cuased if it critically hit.  as a crit on fervant strike will probably cuase as much threat if he critcally hits if the target is stunned or not.  As this should be the case, fervant strike should simple just be a strong aggro ability the paladins have in their arsenal to hold threat and not rely on crits like a dps class would, they should be rewarded for critting as in creating more threat, but not to the point hat if fervant strike doesn't crit is bad and if it does crit is good, is should always be good and than become better if you crit.

    In other words i am saying Fervant Strike will always cuase a large amount of threat, whether he crits or not, he will simply just cuase more for critting becuase he critted, as i said before.


    This post was edited by Riahuf22 at November 26, 2019 8:52 AM PST