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In One Word - Your thoughts on character

    • 9115 posts
    November 18, 2019 3:58 AM PST

    In One Word - Your thoughts on character attribute points? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 1315 posts
    November 18, 2019 4:01 AM PST

    Mudflation

    When stats are the primary drivers for character power growth then numerical stats usually go out of control over time as character progression will require gear to have a greater and greater sum of stats.  This can be especially true if stats and gear a multiplicative with each other.

    If stats are instead used to gate which equipment can be worn, which abilities you can use and how they work and the mechanics of increasing stats means you cannot raise all stats to cap then stats become an interesting mechanic.  If attributes only showed up on jewelry, one per person player stat buffs, and active character stances then it opens up a lot more choice with opportunities to create different but equal builds within the same class.


    This post was edited by Trasak at November 18, 2019 4:11 AM PST
    • 521 posts
    November 18, 2019 5:04 AM PST

    More

    • 500 posts
    November 18, 2019 5:36 AM PST

    Incremental

    • 3852 posts
    November 18, 2019 7:02 AM PST

    Low.

    I would much prefer a system like original D&D or AD&D where the numbers were small (3D6) and the attributes were important. So that if you got to level 30 and gained *one* single point from a reward for the level or a really lucky drop of enormously good gear it made a *big* difference. As distinct from games like LOTRO where inflation expansion after expansion has attribute numbers in the thousands and hit points in the millions (LOTRO hasn't hit 1 million hit points for characters yet but the time is nearing).

    • 1247 posts
    November 18, 2019 8:29 AM PST

    Absolutely.

    #communitymatters #makenightmatteragain #factionsmatter #riskvsreward #deathpenalty #HardRaiding #respectyourguild #HellLevels

    • 368 posts
    November 18, 2019 8:48 AM PST

    Meaningful

    • 2419 posts
    November 18, 2019 9:55 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    In One Word - Your thoughts on character attribute points? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    In what context?  Come on, Kilsin, seriously.  There are so many different contexts when it comes to attribute points.  1) Differences between races; 2)The scale of points (10pt scale vs 100pt scale); 3) Growth rate of points as we level; 4) Growth rate of points across expansions; 5) Applicability of points to different skills, abilities and spells; 6) Player assignment of points, some, none or all...

    So I'll answer each of these with 1 word:

    1) Required

    2) 100

    3) None

    4) None

    5) Important

    6) Some

    • 1584 posts
    November 18, 2019 10:36 AM PST

    Sorry kilsin cant do this in one word either, as we have seen abilities will effective by which stats you priotitize, but i also remember on a old video that their seemed to have gear that gave health and mana specifically, but not so much core stats, i think this is important, it one will keep  from your attributes from become completely bloated to where the difference of 240 to 255 is pennies comepared to what could be 60 to 80.

    It make each point important and dropping items for an important could ultimately change which abilities you use as well as it one was heavily into Intelligence and made one ability quite strong but than change some gear around, and lets say you realied you split it to str and int, and it either open up more abilities or simply priotized other instead all together becuase the scaling can be stronger if the numbers are lower than if the numbers are so bloated and than turn into constant balancing patches to have abilities preform the way they are suppose to without being too strong or weak to what you imagined, especially if it was strong enough it makes the game feel like it lost its challenge.

    • 1785 posts
    November 18, 2019 10:37 AM PST

    I find myself in agreement with both dorotea and Vandraad.

    • 2752 posts
    November 18, 2019 10:46 AM PST

    Nephele said:

    I find myself in agreement with both dorotea and Vandraad.

    But they are both saying different things...

     

    I agree with small numbers and each point being meaningful. 

    • 220 posts
    November 18, 2019 11:14 AM PST

    default character:

     

    :do you mean "allocating points to attributes?

    :attribute gain through rng when lv up?

    :attribute gain at default increment pre-set value when lv up?

    :no attribute points, all mobs are equal to my lv as i lv up?

     

    1: no thanks, cause i like to min/max (exception if you can reset your point 1x only then im ok with this)

    2: no thanks

    3: yes please. i can use weapons, armour, accessory, belts, cloaks to increase my attributes

    4: no thanks

     

    edit: I dont want to see or single one hit a mob for 2,000 - 5,000 - 20,000, - 30,000+  DMG...this definitely unreal and immersion breaking for me. 1,000- DMG meh..." shrug "

    edit2: No I-Lv gear like FFXIV .....  cringy... first time i saw iLv gear i hate it :/ 


    This post was edited by AbsoluteTerror at November 18, 2019 11:26 AM PST
  • November 18, 2019 11:25 AM PST
    Love!
    Best part of making a character is assigning starting attribute points.

    When the D&D session ended you walked away with a great story. Without that rich and vivid storytelling experience, there is more focus on gear, and who downs content first. So I understand how the high attribute values are so..umm.. Valued? Plus I assume the high numbers are the means to make level 80 feel so much more powerful than 75, even though numerically, there is not much difference (6%? Some statistician can correct me).
    • 200 posts
    November 18, 2019 12:35 PM PST

    I like them as long as there is a guide as to which stat will do what to each class.

    • 1785 posts
    November 18, 2019 1:49 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Nephele said:

    I find myself in agreement with both dorotea and Vandraad.

    But they are both saying different things...

     

    I agree with small numbers and each point being meaningful. 

    True, they're saying different things, but I think they both have a similar vision for how important/meaningful attributes should be, and how (because of that) scaling should be tightly controlled over time.  It's that vision that I agree with, really.

    • 2138 posts
    November 18, 2019 2:21 PM PST

    Idiomatic : 

    A character attribute point that has a literal (base stats +10), or formulaic (skill stats +50), or sometimes figurative (personal stats +100), impact.

    Base stats = Sta, Int, Wis, Cha, Agi, Dex, Str, AC (<-- welcome arguments on AC)

    Personal stats = begging, meditating/training, sense heading, alcholol tolerance, bind wounds, fishing, swimming, climbing

    Skill stats: language, faction, crafting (fishing should go here??), diplomacy or the likes thereof.

    I agree that a +1 to base stats should be significant. The other two I made up;  thinking that skills could impact playerability but they should be work to get and come coincidentally like through questing and interaction. Personal stats being something sort of on the back burner that you would always be doing but may have a secret hidden benefit or could come in handy at the strangest time if you are high enough, nice to have maxxed, but not necessary.

     

    TL;dr For instance, with 100 alchohol tolerance you would never get drunk, but sometimes it may be important to be a little tipsy as it can offer you false courage in a place where spectres fear you if you were sober, but if drunk you dont give a s**t and start slicing at the mist and then you drunkenly hit something against a wall that *click* that opens.....Or always carry plenty of water when crossing the desert because you can die of thirst, never drink alchohol because you will dehydrate! but those worms will find your walking rythym, but if you stumbled along the desert wastes when drunk the worms wont find you so it might be best NOT to have complete alchohol tolerance no matter how much importance the dwarves admire how one can hold their drink.  

     

    • 1399 posts
    November 18, 2019 4:37 PM PST

    Irrelevant

     

    And since one word comments are against the rules KILSIN, I’ll feel free to elaborate… There are going to be so many people in this thread, that are going to so over evaluate attribute points, and then a whole Team of Dev’s doing the same thing.  That I’m not even going to bother, I’m sure whatever you end up with will be fine.

    • 624 posts
    November 18, 2019 5:34 PM PST

    Syncopated.

    Rather than following staid formulae where "for class XX put all spare points into YY", I prefer game design where for low levels you can mix it up a bit, gaining benefit by highlighting weak areas.  This only makes sense when all/most stats matter (no/few dump stats!). Over time gear should be able to compensate for any racial / stat / poor choice deficiencies.  That way the new players we hope to wrangle into Pantheon won't be devasted by level 20 if they made an uninformed decision at character creation.

    • 114 posts
    November 18, 2019 6:13 PM PST

    developing

    • 18 posts
    November 18, 2019 8:50 PM PST

    Irrelevant, atleast in mmo's lately. I think we're all counting on them actually being something we have to put some thought into while playing Pantheon. Those 2 points i got to allocate into strength at character creation seem way less important when they've been dwarfed by the attributes gained from gear, buffs, consumables, etc. Especially after multiple expansions and power creep starts to set in. Couple that with typically low modifiers, allocated as well as base stats become meaningless.


    This post was edited by Mark81 at November 18, 2019 8:52 PM PST
    • 2756 posts
    November 19, 2019 1:16 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    In One Word - Your thoughts on character attribute points? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    Overemphasised

    • 627 posts
    November 19, 2019 6:21 AM PST
    Important
    • 291 posts
    November 19, 2019 11:46 AM PST

    Potent.

    • 520 posts
    November 20, 2019 6:04 AM PST

    LOVE

     

    As with the whole character development process I absolutely love the stat allocation. However, as already stated above, attribute points must be meaningful to be relevant. The more characters differs from one another the better.

    • 51 posts
    November 20, 2019 6:09 AM PST
    Meaning

    Character development has to be within the game at all times. It can be super slow, as long as its there! If gear ends up being the only character progression alternative, you are more prone to stop playing.