Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - Do you like being able to change

    • 1247 posts
    November 11, 2019 11:15 AM PST

    Therek said:

    I am of the mind that your gear and items should appear as they are, as a representation of something your character has accomplished. Sometimes there will be a need to choose between a piece of gear you think looks great or a piece of gear with the better utility. Simply having to make this choice is important, in my opinion, as it is part of character identity.

    Having said that, I can see the other side of the argument with some good points raised above. So, if some sort of transmog system were implemented that utilized player interdependence, was part of a tradeskill, or occured organically in the world, I could live with that. As long as it is not part of a cash shop. Transmog systems have traditionally been tied to cash shops and we know those won’t be a part of Pantheon. 

    Therek, your post is awesome to say the least and what I really like about your thoughts are they flow very well with the vision for Pantheon. I think everything you mention imo should be what myself and others would like to see in Pantheon regarding gear appearance. 

    • 42 posts
    November 11, 2019 11:31 AM PST

    my 2 coppers on it.

     

    variety is the spice of life.

     

     

    • 3237 posts
    November 11, 2019 11:36 AM PST

    Nephele said:

    So, I feel like arguing about whether the game should have appearance slots and how they should work is sort of like putting the cart before the horse.  Don't get me wrong, I still think having them is probably better than the alternative in many cases.  But what I care more about is that there's a wide variety of equipment textures that people can choose from, at all levels.

    It all comes down to being efficient with resources and seeing that art is the biggest bottleneck of getting the game to launch, unique textures are pretty low on my priority list.  Recycling existing texture assets seems like it would be a very efficient way of producing more with less.  There is no need to have 30 different plate textures, in my opinion, just like there is no need to have 10 different goblin models.  Changing the color of something produces a lot of bang for a little buck, relatively speaking.

    Don't get me wrong ... I think having more models/textures is great, but it wouldn't dramatically change my gameplay experience, and I would prefer to see that sort of stuff emphasized later.  The more content we have, the better.  If VR can crank out more content by recycling/modifying existing assets, they get two big thumbs up from me.  Changing the color of an existing armor model/texture had plenty of impact 15 years ago and I think that could/should still be realized today, within reason.  Art can be expensive and time-consuming and when there is a sense of urgency for both cost and time, it reminds me of this scene from Grandma's Boy ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLR3faI7lU

    I think most people would agree that quick/cheap is usually synonymous with bad ... but when it comes to armor graphics in Pantheon, it could be just what the doctor ordered!  From the sound of it, VR seems to be leveraging this philosophy to some degree.  From that same newsletter I linked on the last page:

    What are the aesthetics of gear progression like? Will you be able to tell roughly how high level someone is just by looking at them?

    Will: Currently we are trying out a multi-tiered system per armor set. This will give each armor set a unique look/silhouette according to tier, but also retain the general look of that armor set.  We also have in-engine tools to modify the age, grunginess, amount of dirt/mold and so on.

     

    It appears that we'll most likely be seeing multiple tiers of each set.  Maybe the lowest tier is rusty while the highest tier is pristine.  Modifying the age/grunginess/dirt/mold is a great start but I certainly wouldn't mind one bit if coloration was also used as a factor to distinguish one set of gear from another, even if they share the same model.  Does blackened iron plate mail need to have its own texture, or could it just be a darker/blackened version of regular old iron?  If Pantheon were to have Rubicite plate mail, color me satisfied if the coloration is the primary factor for distinguishing the identity of the set.  I realize that I am probably in the minority in saying this as expectations have increased quite a bit over the years as it relates to graphic fidelity.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at November 11, 2019 12:05 PM PST
    • 291 posts
    November 11, 2019 12:33 PM PST

    Im torn on this one...... It was amazing when you knew what everyone wore. It made the game "feel" real... But it was boring in the high end when everyone had the same stuff/same colors. Maybe just appearance gear at higher levels and hard earned through quests or boss drops? Im not sure.

    • 416 posts
    November 11, 2019 12:40 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    No to outlandish, over-the-top, non-adventuring gear.

    No to outlandish, over-the-top adventuring gear, too, really.

    Yes to 'storing' the appearance of previously used adventuring gear (even if it consumes it) and overriding current gear you don't like the look of (even if it's a one-time permanent thing).

    No to any cosmetic look being different by class or type to what is actually being worn.

    Indifferent to lore-appropriate, simple 'civilian' clothes when not adventuring.

    No to tuxedos, ballgowns, pyjamas, bikinis, holiday-themed outfits and the like even in non-adventuring settings.

    Re a 'toggle' system which supposedly means everyone gets what they want?  It doesn't.  If cosmetics *are* allowed a toggle makes them pointless/worthless/confusing.  If I cared about how I look (which I do) I would have to maintain both cosmetic and 'real' looks and never know which anyone is seeing.  Also, to never know what others are actually seeing when they look at you or others is immersion-breaking and confusing.

    "Go help that warrior in rusty plate there!"
    "I don't see anyone in rusty plate"
    "Next to the wizard in the green tunic"
    "There's two wizards, both are wearing robes"
    "Nevermind, he's dead... Is that helmet of yours difficult to see out of or something?"
    "I'm not wearing a helmet"
    "Gah!"

    With my 'wardrobe' system, everyone gets what they want.  If some players find prestige and bragging important, they can show exactly what they are wearing.  Others can show what they want to (but nothing they haven't earned and worn).  The usual /inspect function allows people that really feel the need to know what others are wearing to do that.  A toggle removes the option for players to decide how they look to anyone but themselves which is crazy.

    P.S. This whole thing is going to be very controversial and I'd rather have nothing than potentially immersion-breaking cosmetics or cosmetics that are pointless/confusing because of a toggle.  As long as Pantheon armor is lore-sensitive and in-keeping with a gritty but fantasy feel, then it won't be an issue like it was in classic EQ for example, where you would regularly end up looking like a jester in rainbow motley.

    P.P.S.  Having a simple, subtle wardrobe system allows for a whole meta game of 'collecting' outfits that a lot of people used to do in games like LOTRO.  You would explore all zones of all levels to make sure you hadn't missed a style of outfit you might like.  As I said, everything was still totally appropriate for you class and actually worn gear, but it added a whole level of interest that you would otherwise not have.  Without such a system, players might even end up avoiding/skipping doing some content because you know the armor drops have a look you don't like.

     

    This works for me.

    • 220 posts
    November 11, 2019 12:51 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Do you like being able to change your character's appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons? #MMORPG#CommunityMatters

     

    I rather everyone be known by their accomplishment by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons. 

    P.S I cant stand gear dye,vanity pet-mount-etc, cash shop costumes, weapon coloring,glamour fashion show, all the out of place character astectic things that comes with modern mmo its just kills my imersion seeing a flamboyant peacock player running around...cringe

    P.P.S. no marriage in game or anything related to wedding even dress and tuxedo. 


    This post was edited by AbsoluteTerror at November 11, 2019 1:35 PM PST
    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 12:59 PM PST

    Syrif said:

    Hegenox said:

    I whould quite enjoy some variant of what was present in the Grim Down - we could change a visuals of our gears to the gear that we once were in posession of - though including the item type - so wearing cloth armor you could only change it to be a cloth armor and not a plate mail.

    The big problem with that is it changes the unique appearance of the item earned. If I am camping a mob for a Robe of the Oracle because I like the stats and/or appearance of that robe, then that is something that I worked for and earned. I don’t want someone else to just change the appearance of the item entirely into another item simply “because he/she wants to.”

    But no one can force you to change the look of *your* item.  If someone changes *their* Robe of the Oracle to look like a Robe of Something Else, how does that effect yours or you in any way at all?  Most wouldn't even know, never mind care.

    As Hegenox says, as long as the look is from something you previously earned and it is the same type, how can it be a problem?

    What other people show has no effect on the prestige of your items.  In fact, it would effectively make yours a more rare look *shrug*

    I understand how some would want to show off their accomplishments.  I don't understand how some appear to want to force others to show off theirs.

    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:05 PM PST

    AbsoluteTerror said:

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Do you like being able to change your character's appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons? #MMORPG#CommunityMatters

    I rather everyone be known by their accomplishment by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons. 

    P.S I cant stand gear dye, cash shop costumes, all the out of place character astectic things that comes with modern mmo its just kills my imersion seeing a flamboyant peacock player running around...cringe

    I'm not saying this to try and nay-say your opinion - I am genuinely curious.  If we had a wardrobe system where we were only able to change gear to look like something we have earned or worn before and nothing that is inappropriate to the actual gear, would that be ok?

    Is the gear someone wears at any one time, really the measure of a player's accomplishment? (especially when it may not even be the latest/best thing they have if they are wearing something that is more appropriate to a current encounter, for example)


    This post was edited by disposalist at November 11, 2019 1:17 PM PST
    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:16 PM PST

    stellarmind said:

    known for accomplishments.  while it is cool to be able to customize the aesthetics, clear and concise information is more desirable.

    (pvp perspective)

    if someone is approaching me i want to know if they are dangerous or not.  suppose a warrior wearing full dragon slaying armour and has a chaotic sword of taifon, i'd know to start hauling ass not stand there and fight.

    a huge part of pvp entails deception, decision-making and awareness at the highest levels.  concealing the strength of equipment alters the mental state of an opponent.

    for example, if the same warrior was in a farmer's clothes and a pitchfork, i'm not expecting him to 1 shot me so i'm going to stand my ground.

    Yes.  As with most aspects of the game, PvP changes the situation utterly.  Then not looking like you *should* makes knowing whether to approach and how to approach you almost impossible.  People would intentionally mis-represent their class and level.

    There is a strong case for not allowing cosmetics, even of a subtle nature, in PvP.

    Having said that, everyone would be in the same boat... It's just whether or not you like combat to be very unpredictable.

    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:27 PM PST

    oneADseven said:

    What are the aesthetics of gear progression like? Will you be able to tell roughly how high level someone is just by looking at them?

    Will: Currently we are trying out a multi-tiered system per armor set. This will give each armor set a unique look/silhouette according to tier, but also retain the general look of that armor set.  We also have in-engine tools to modify the age, grunginess, amount of dirt/mold and so on.

    It would be absolutely awesome if we could *choose* the modifications of the armor that the designers use, like age, rust, dirt and damage, as an extension of the more usual dye systems.

    Often the only reason I want a 'wardrobe' system is because 'top' tier armor can look so ridiculously shiny and pristine.  I like my characters to look a bit more beaten and gritty.

    (Having said that, I would miss the added exploration experience of 'collecting' all the different gear looks that a wardrobe system enables)

    • 1247 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:34 PM PST

    Disposalist, I am not going to respond to all of your posts here, but will regarding what you wrote to me. I do not like the idea of a robe transforming into another robe simply because someone wants it to. I don’t think a lvl 20 robe should be changed to look identical to a lvl 50 robe and vice-versa. /shrug 


    This post was edited by Syrif at November 11, 2019 1:54 PM PST
    • 523 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:40 PM PST

    Ideally, there is no cosmetic option and Pantheon does a good job having a deep and diverse trove of armors and weapons to diversify the population.  I thought Classic EQ did this pretty well at first and then down the road showed how awful customization can be once they actually implemented armor dyes.  Having no customization just gives a very easy carrot to encourage people to seek out and obtain the armor/weapons that they like the appearance of and then feel continued pride and individualism as they wear them for others to gawk at.

    • 1428 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:41 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    Yes.  As with most aspects of the game, PvP changes the situation utterly.  Then not looking like you *should* makes knowing whether to approach and how to approach you almost impossible.  People would intentionally mis-represent their class and level.

    There is a strong case for not allowing cosmetics, even of a subtle nature, in PvP.

    Having said that, everyone would be in the same boat... It's just whether or not you like combat to be very unpredictable.

    i'm okay with a toggle by all accounts.  as long as i can turn off cosmetics to see the true appeareance and can gauge the strength.  cuz i'm definitely going to have the appeareance of a very simple npc to mislead the opponent.

    i could be labeled as a 'trap' XD

    imagine if an end game epic raid boss was a rat.

    (deleted image)


    This post was edited by NoJuiceViscosity at November 12, 2019 10:14 AM PST
    • 220 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:43 PM PST

    Syrif said:

    Doford said:

    dorotea said:

    I would be happy with no appearance options at all. Let's have some realism here. If I am wearing plate mail why in the name of all Gods should someone look at me and see me in a bikini? Or even cloth armor.

    The only reason to allow us to be seen wearing things we actually are *not* wearing is to generate sales for an in-game store. No store - no need for this nonsense.

    An option to have the player see the character in "pretend" gear isn't nearly as bad as one that inflicts this on other players though I don't see the need to waste resources on this.

    If VR is going the "pretend gear" route at an irreducable minimum give us an option to disable it.

    In games letting me check boxes to hide head armor and cloaks I always use these. Hey - I spent a lot of time getting my hair just right. But I would gladly sacrifice these options if the bottom line was that we always saw all characters as they actually were.

    I agree completely. Nice 2500 post dorotea. 

    Yes — that is very well explained Dorotea, thank you! I definitely agree. Gear only shown as it was intended to be in the first place. 

     

    Though VR say they're not gonna have in-game cash shop but i dont remember VR answering my question about VR Website cash-shop for cosmetic bs no stats >.>

    I hope they dont have a website cosmetic garbage thats the same thing as in-game chas shop

    • 2752 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:45 PM PST

    I think armor dyes are a bad idea in general, they do a lot to ruin or otherwise muddy the waters of having memorable items and item identities. If you want blackened armor go find where in the world it drops.

    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:52 PM PST

    I've made a few posts in this thread already, but I'm going to make another and go back to what I think is the crux of Kilsin's question: "Do you like being able to change your character's appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons?"

    The crux being "...players be known for their accomplishments by..."

    Does being able to see the true appearence of a character's gear allow you to know a player's accomplishments?

    Is that really the measure of a player?

    It is conflating the player and the character.  A player may have several characters.  What does any one character tell you about the player?

    Will twinking be stopped?  If not the concept becomes very complex, if not meaningless.

    Is the current gear of a particular character always the 'best'?  Might they be changing gear for different encounters?

    What is meant by 'accomplishment'?  A piece with better stats may have taken much less effort/skill to obtain than a piece gained many levels before.

    Does another player's accomplishments effect your in any way at all?

    Why do you want/need to know what others have accomplished?

    Do you have a 'right' to be able to know someone else's history of accomplishment just by looking at them?

    Is your desire to compete or measure yourself against others' gear acquisitions more important than their desire to control what they look like to others?  Or vice versa?

    As long as someone cannot *inflate* their apparent accomplishments, does it matter?

    Etc.

    I think it's a lot more complex a question than it first might appear.

    • 1247 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:55 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I think armor dyes are a bad idea in general, they do a lot to ruin or otherwise muddy the waters of having memorable items and item identities. If you want blackened armor go find where in the world it drops.

    Very true Iksar. I like that more than dyes. 

    • 220 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:57 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I like the option to change appearances, be it hair or equipment appearances. 

     

    I'd very much prefer having a toggle for seeing other people in adventure or cosmetic gear, being able to switch it on or off depending on mood or what task I am attempting seems pretty beneficial to me. Just about every MMO I have played with cosmetic options has made me wish I had a toggle for this, especially when I played FFXIV *shiver*. 

     

     

     

    FF14 became a fashion show not a mmorpg....i just sub for 1 month and i cant bring myself to continue playing....plus i cant stand the stupid hidabrand quest that shet is gross and its not even funny even though they tried...

    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 1:59 PM PST

    Syrif said:

    Disposalist, I am not going to respond to all of your posts here, but regarding what you wrote to me: I do not like the idea of a robe transforming into another robe simply because someone wants it to. I don’t think a lvl 20 robe should be changed to look identical to a lvl 50 robe and vice-versa. /shrug 

    Ok, but I'm interested why?  I wouldn't want someone who is 20th level to be able to make their 20th level robe look like a 50th level one they couldn't wear or hadn't earned *but* if they are 50th level and want their 50th level robe to look like the one that they wore at 20th level, then why not?

    They aren't making themselves look more impressive than they really are (or could be).  They aren't impacting the prestige of anyone else's robe.  They *did* own the level 20 robe (and they perhaps had to consume it to 'store' the look, so they aren't effectively even using a robe they sold).

    I genuinely want to understand how it effects you, if people aren't over-inflating their prestige, but choose the look of what is almost certainly considered a less prestigeous (or at most equally prestigeous) item.


    This post was edited by disposalist at November 11, 2019 2:00 PM PST
    • 2756 posts
    November 11, 2019 2:09 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I think armor dyes are a bad idea in general, they do a lot to ruin or otherwise muddy the waters of having memorable items and item identities. If you want blackened armor go find where in the world it drops.

    I think some dye systems are better than others.  ESO had a good one, if I remember correctly.  It didn't change everything, it changed the colour of accent pieces on armor, so maybe the sash and belt of a tunic or the shoulder, elbow and crest with a breastplate.

    In that way you could stop items from clashing so much related to each other, but it didn't totally alter the shade/look of any one piece.

    It allowed you to subtly better blend otherwise incongruous items.

    Mind you, ESO allowed mixing of light, medium and heavy armor, so maybe it was more of a problem there.

    • 1247 posts
    November 11, 2019 2:13 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    Syrif said:

    Disposalist, I am not going to respond to all of your posts here, but regarding what you wrote to me: I do not like the idea of a robe transforming into another robe simply because someone wants it to. I don’t think a lvl 20 robe should be changed to look identical to a lvl 50 robe and vice-versa. /shrug 

    Ok, but I'm interested why?  I wouldn't want someone who is 20th level to be able to make their 20th level robe look like a 50th level one they couldn't wear or hadn't earned *but* if they are 50th level and want their 50th level robe to look like the one that they wore at 20th level, then why not?

    They aren't making themselves look more impressive than they really are (or could be).  They aren't impacting the prestige of anyone else's robe.  They *did* own the level 20 robe (and they perhaps had to consume it to 'store' the look, so they aren't effectively even using a robe they sold).

    I genuinely want to understand how it effects you, if people aren't over-inflating their prestige, but choose the look of what is almost certainly considered a less prestigeous (or at most equally prestigeous) item.

    Lol last time I‘m responding on the robe lol. :) 

    A lvl 20 robe is a lvl 20 robe. A lvl 50 robe is a lvl 50 robe. They are also unique and iconic for what each is (they look different and aren’t the same appearance). That’s why I don’t think one robe should be changed to look like the other robe‘s appearance at someone‘s discretion. They just aren’t the same robes.

    • 1428 posts
    November 11, 2019 2:18 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    I've made a few posts in this thread already, but I'm going to make another and go back to what I think is the crux of Kilsin's question: "Do you like being able to change your character's appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons?"

    The crux being "...players be known for their accomplishments by..."

    Does being able to see the true appearence of a character's gear allow you to know a player's accomplishments?  to some degree yes.

    Is that really the measure of a player?  no

    It is conflating the player and the character.  A player may have several characters.  What does any one character tell you about the player?  that he is knowledgeable, has a good network/guild or he paid to get carried rofl.

    Will twinking be stopped?  If not the concept becomes very complex, if not meaningless.  twinking is only a thing to mmos that have isolated level barriers.

    Is the current gear of a particular character always the 'best'?  Might they be changing gear for different encounters?  acclimation!  what maybe good in lava caverns will not be good armour in the tundra :D

    What is meant by 'accomplishment'?  A piece with better stats may have taken much less effort/skill to obtain than a piece gained many levels before.  gear shows what a man does.  there's this one scene in goblin slayer where everyone is making fun of the protagnist for wearing crappy gear, but he is very specialized in what he does so the equipment suits his needs.  his reputation is his accomplishment.

    Does another player's accomplishments effect your in any way at all?  envy.  now to few people out there, no one cares if you're driving a ferrari or not.

    Why do you want/need to know what others have accomplished?  it's a great conversation starter!   hey man how did you get that armour?  and the replies with get gud scrub or actually gives you some valuable information.

    Do you have a 'right' to be able to know someone else's history of accomplishment just by looking at them?  why not?  that's like if i couldn't look at people walking down the street because i don't have a right to internally judge people O.o

    Is your desire to compete or measure yourself against others' gear acquisitions more important than their desire to control what they look like to others?  Or vice versa?  i'd rather be a potato pvper than prance around like a fairy >.>

    As long as someone cannot *inflate* their apparent accomplishments, does it matter?  gotta let the epeeners flex i suppose.

    Etc.

    I think it's a lot more complex a question than it first might appear.  it's complex because you're a complex person.  it's simple to me cuz i'm stupid XD

    it depends on what stage the mmo is at and how relevant the equipment is.  if the current state obtaining grand trident of syronai is extremely difficult, people will oogle over it.  if it is 3 seasons later, it's as desirable as a wooden stick.  then again i'm a bit of a hoarder so i'll keep the shiny stick :D

    • 81 posts
    November 11, 2019 3:17 PM PST

    I, personally, do not like seeing weapons twice as big as characters,  neon armor,  every weapon glowing etc.  but I know some people love that so I say allow all that stuff but give us the option to not see it.  Let some guy have his female char look like she is wearing dental floss for armor just let me not have to see it. 

     

    Options > either/or's

    • 220 posts
    November 11, 2019 4:20 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    AbsoluteTerror said:

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Do you like being able to change your character's appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons? #MMORPG#CommunityMatters

    I rather everyone be known by their accomplishment by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons. 

    P.S I cant stand gear dye, cash shop costumes, all the out of place character astectic things that comes with modern mmo its just kills my imersion seeing a flamboyant peacock player running around...cringe

    I'm not saying this to try and nay-say your opinion - I am genuinely curious.  If we had a wardrobe system where we were only able to change gear to look like something we have earned or worn before and nothing that is inappropriate to the actual gear, would that be ok?

    Is the gear someone wears at any one time, really the measure of a player's accomplishment? (especially when it may not even be the latest/best thing they have if they are wearing something that is more appropriate to a current encounter, for example)

     

    it's kool Disposalist, i feel that way because of the current modern mmo genre has taken mmorpg into a fashion show mmo especially the asian mmo. You and others might say we can have a toggle to turn off that appearance setting so my character (A) dont see it, only character (B) see it on their screen. You and others are correct in that regard but why waste resource on fashion show while VR can focus their resource on building a game that different from these cookie cutter mmo that we or most of us are tired of in this forum.

    I feel that way because i saw how FFXIV took that mess over the cliff and even have a Fashion Achievment. At first it start off small like how we are disccusing now dyes, fashion slots, pet vanity, mount vanity (motorcycle and cars), that not even a part of an mmo fantasy but evenually the voices gets louder then it'll become a full blown quest to unlock fashion, dye, fashion slot as i called it, etc and dare i say cash shop for costumes, pets, mounts on VR website with no stats?

    If VR made a toggle to turn off all that mess and all i see on my screen is you wearing a lv50 lore in-game gear but on your screen you see yourself wearing a tuxedo you earn through in-game event or your a lv50 wearing a lv25 gear because you defeated a boss for said gear in your fashion slot. Hey im kool with that but i know the old saying....."you give them an inch and they'll take a mile"

    Pantheon might just be another cookie cutter mmo :/

     

    • 220 posts
    November 11, 2019 4:58 PM PST

    KatoKhan said:

    I, personally, do not like seeing weapons twice as big as characters,  neon armor,  every weapon glowing etc.  but I know some people love that so I say allow all that stuff but give us the option to not see it.  Let some guy have his female char look like she is wearing dental floss for armor just let me not have to see it. 

     

    Options > either/or's

    after seeing female dental floss in most modern mmo...i know i wont be commited to that game for long :/