oneADseven said:Riahuf22 said:This can exsist even with a toggle, like literally every word of it, so again i don't see the big deal.
That's like saying that mounts, spells, names, and characters can exist, even with a toggle that allows other players to disable them. Yes, the benefits I mentioned could exist. That doesn't mean that they would be fully/mostly/appropriately realized. Every person who disables appearance slots would diminish their value as it relates to the goal of enjoying a "shared experience." At the same time, the players who disable the appearance slots (for others) would still be able to take advantage of the improved economy, content relevance, and horizontal progression opportunities. That doesn't feel right at all. A player would be able to make their character appear exactly how they want (in the eyes of those who have appearance slots toggled on) while simultaneously denying others from being able to do the same.
I suppose an additional measure could be added which would prevent a player from using items in an appearance slot while they have them disabled for others, but we're already well past the point of ridiculousness. Wouldn't it be rather absurd if a player farms for a bloodstone breastplate, specifically because of its relative appearance value, while simultaneously having appearance slots toggled off? You shouldn't get the best of both worlds. I hope that the appearance slot toggle is ditched. Core values should not be compromised. Appearance slots should either always be on, or always be off, the same way /hidehelmet has worked in every other MMO ever made, to my knowledge. If appearance slots end up being an RP-Server-Only type of thing, it is extremely likely that I would be playing on an RP server.
And i would say trying to force someone to see something they dont want to could kill the immersion/gameplay they are trying to experience and for on the other hand the toggle affects not at all has in gameplay/immersion becuase you can't see my computer, so the mere fact you think you forcing a feature onto me sounds right to you is worst than me having a toggle to not see it when it completes my immersion into the game, which is one of the core tenets of this game. so you view the world the way you want to and allow me to enjoy it the way i want to and let both of us be happy. As I said trying to have me see you the way you want me to see you when i dont want to see cosmetic items is by far worse than me disabling them and seeing your adventure gear, becuase me doing so does nothing to your gameplay/immersion as for your way would completely destroy mine.
And choice the RP server choice that is the reason it was mentioned as a compromise to have people be happy in this manner, instead of trying to get a full all or nothing mentality, that many people were suggesting, when obviously all or nothing situations simply just don't work especially in an mmorpg, everyone should know that by now.
Well since none of those have to deal with anything this topic mentions i don't see what this has to do with anything, and again if you want it to where you want your cosmetic gear to show up at all times you can join a RP server, and your problems will be solved. And again becuase if you are:
Wearing the Breastplate of Snakepits
But you made it look like Plate of the Almighty
You kill my immersion on my side of things, and my immersion on my computer screen does nothing to your immersion becuase you cant see my computer screen
And again if you have a problem with that we have a compromise for that as well
Au contraire mon frère. My appearance is no difference than any of those items I mentioned. It’s all part of my persona. It may be hard to accept, by my persona trumps your immersion. You don’t like my appearance, look away, don’t team with me, etc.
Beefcake said: The character is MY persona. It is who I am in the game. Do you get to toggle what race I am? Do you get to toggle what gender I am? Do you get to toggle my height? Do you get to toggle my language? Do you get to toggle my hair style? Do you get to toggle my weight? Why should you get to toggle who I am?
Your outfit is what you are actually wearing. Why do you get to change the reality of the game world for me?
At this point I'd almost rather people have to sacrifice stats for their adventuring gear if they want to play dress up for the world and have no cosmetic/appearance tabs at all.
330+ posts in this thread and nothing has gone anywhere.
Beefcake said: Au contraire mon frère. My appearance is no difference than any of those items I mentioned. It’s all part of my persona. It may be hard to accept, by my persona trumps your immersion. You don’t like my appearance, look away, don’t team with me, etc. Or, just stop being a snowflake.
So now we resort to name calling lol wow, well i can easily say now everything you just said before that comment now means completely nothing to me and i hope you have a nice day.
Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said: Au contraire mon frère. My appearance is no difference than any of those items I mentioned. It’s all part of my persona. It may be hard to accept, by my persona trumps your immersion. You don’t like my appearance, look away, don’t team with me, etc. Or, just stop being a snowflake.So now we resort to name calling lol wow, well i can easily say now everything you just said before that comment now means completely nothing to me and i hope you have a nice day.
As opposed to your suggestion of being pushed to a different server because you don't like my appearance? Take a moment and think about who's suggestion is the least restrictive and beneficial to everyone.
Iksar said:Your outfit is what you are actually wearing. Why do you get to change the reality of the game world for me?
At this point I'd almost rather people have to sacrifice stats for their adventuring gear if they want to play dress up for the world and have no cosmetic/appearance tabs at all.
The point of having an appearance slot is to override the graphic of what you are wearing. If it doesn't work then why have it? Should players also have a toggle to disable the /hidehelmet command for others? Should players have to sacrifice the stats of their helmet if they don't want it to be visible? It alters the reality of the game world the same way appearance slots do. What is the difference? Has there ever been another MMO that allowed players to disable the /hidehelmet command from working for others? Why do you think that is?
How are you being pushed to a different server when no one has played the full game yet? so what you meant is say is why should i want to pick a server that has cosmetic feature always on? simple so you can see cosmetic gear.
Riahuf22 said:How are you being pushed to a different server when no one has played the full game yet? so what you meant is say is why should i want to pick a server that has cosmetic feature always on? simple so you can see cosmetic gear.
That was your suggestion.
Riahuf22 said:Well since none of those have to deal with anything this topic mentions i don't see what this has to do with anything, and again if you want it to where you want your cosmetic gear to show up at all times you can join a RP server, and your problems will be solved.
Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
If they added a tabbard slot, which allowed me to cover up my breastplate, I am guessing that would break your immersion as well.
Why do you care so much about why I look like?
Why are you so infatuated with my appearance that you need to control it?
Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
Interesting way to look at things. Have you ever played a game that has appearance slots? It has nothing to do with a breastplate having conscious thought or emotion. It's all about improving player agency as it relates to how our characters appear in the world.
oneADseven said:The point of having an appearance slot is to override the graphic of what you are wearing. If it doesn't work then why have it? Should players also have a toggle to disable the /hidehelmet command for others? Should players have to sacrifice the stats of their helmet if they don't want it to be visible? It alters the reality of the game world the same way appearance slots do. What is the difference? Has there ever been another MMO that allowed players to disable the /hidehelmet command from working for others? Why do you think that is?
The point is up for interpretation. I use cosmetics to look pleasing for and to myself, I couldn't care less what others see and 99% of the time I really don't give a care what "creative" outfits others have put together. It's not some insane thing, it's a mainstay in single player games these days too.
As for hidehelmet? I'd say that is a thing because hide cloak/helmet were in games long before cosmetics or appearance tabs became such a big deal and money maker for companies. It also doesn't allow someone to completely misrepresent what they look like, just a helmet/cloak missing or not. But yeah, I'd add an extra option for the appearance toggle to show/hide helms and cloaks of others. Why not.
Anyway, I am done with this. I've said all I care to on this. Good luck VR.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
If they added a tabbard slot, which allowed me to cover up my breastplate, I am guessing that would break your immersion as well.
Why do you care so much about why I look like?
Why are you so infatuated with my appearance that you need to control it?
i simply just want to have the chance to be able to know what you are wearing at glance, and i don't understand why ti bothers you so much you cant even see my computer screen but yet this topic has been replied to over 300 times pretending you guys cana nd somehow bothers you that i want to see something the way i want to.
oneADseven said:Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
Interesting way to look at things. Have you ever played a game that has appearance slots? It has nothing to do with a breastplate having conscious thought or emotion. It's all about improving player agency as it relates to how our characters appear in the world.
I honestly feel like I'm being trolled by this question and even trying to answer it seems like i would do nothing but feed the beast so I'm going to let this one go.
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:How are you being pushed to a different server when no one has played the full game yet? so what you meant is say is why should i want to pick a server that has cosmetic feature always on? simple so you can see cosmetic gear.
That was your suggestion.
Riahuf22 said:Well since none of those have to deal with anything this topic mentions i don't see what this has to do with anything, and again if you want it to where you want your cosmetic gear to show up at all times you can join a RP server, and your problems will be solved.
The thing is you cant pick a Different server if you haven't picked a server at all.
Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
If they added a tabbard slot, which allowed me to cover up my breastplate, I am guessing that would break your immersion as well.
Why do you care so much about why I look like?
Why are you so infatuated with my appearance that you need to control it?
i simply just want to have the chance to be able to know what you are wearing at glance, and i don't understand why ti bothers you so much you cant even see my computer screen but yet this topic has been replied to over 300 times pretending you guys cana nd somehow bothers you that i want to see something the way i want to.
But, WHY is it so important for you to see what I am wearing at a glance? What does it matter to you?
Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
If they added a tabbard slot, which allowed me to cover up my breastplate, I am guessing that would break your immersion as well.
Why do you care so much about why I look like?
Why are you so infatuated with my appearance that you need to control it?
i simply just want to have the chance to be able to know what you are wearing at glance, and i don't understand why ti bothers you so much you cant even see my computer screen but yet this topic has been replied to over 300 times pretending you guys cana nd somehow bothers you that i want to see something the way i want to.
But, WHY is it so important for you to see what I am wearing at a glance? What does it matter to you?
Becuase what you are actually wearing, the one that is giving you stats, is your Real Gear, and Cosmetic Gear isn't it is an appearance changer and i want to see what doesn't break my immersion, and that is seeing what is Real, it is that simple and again as i have said at least 15 times what i see does not affect your gameplay/immersion in anyway. And as i have also said many times if i didn't tell you, you would never know any better. And as i have also said if VR does some server specific server where cosmetic is always active than you can be happy in your world and i can be happy in mine, as this does seem like one of the better options as of right now. If VR decides to go a different route than i guess at that point we can discuss that at a later date, but at this point lets just assume this is the way it is and be happy it does truly serve both sides of the arguement and no bad feelings to each other.
Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Beefcake said:Riahuf22 said:Well how would it that been something enchanters have been able to do since over 20 years ago, but last i checked my plate of the almighty doesnt just decide to look like a breatplate of the snakepit simply becuase it had a change of heart or decided to be in a better mood.
If they added a tabbard slot, which allowed me to cover up my breastplate, I am guessing that would break your immersion as well.
Why do you care so much about why I look like?
Why are you so infatuated with my appearance that you need to control it?
i simply just want to have the chance to be able to know what you are wearing at glance, and i don't understand why ti bothers you so much you cant even see my computer screen but yet this topic has been replied to over 300 times pretending you guys cana nd somehow bothers you that i want to see something the way i want to.
But, WHY is it so important for you to see what I am wearing at a glance? What does it matter to you?
Becuase what you are actually wearing, the one that is giving you stats, is your Real Gear, and Cosmetic Gear isn't it is an appearance changer and i want to see what doesn't break my immersion, and that is seeing what is Real, it is that simple and again as i have said at least 15 times what i see does not affect your gameplay/immersion in anyway. And as i have also said many times if i didn't tell you, you would never know any better. And as i have also said if VR does some server specific server where cosmetic is always active than you can be happy in your world and i can be happy in mine, as this does seem like one of the better options as of right now. If VR decides to go a different route than i guess at that point we can discuss that at a later date, but at this point lets just assume this is the way it is and be happy it does truly serve both sides of the arguement and no bad feelings to each other.
We are playing in an imaginary world, and gear appearance is the one thing you expect to be real?
Appearance gear, by itself, is not sufficient to segregate the population into different servers. But, apparently, you feel that everyone that wants to express themselves should be forced to be somewhere else, when it's so easy for you to turn away. That's realism for you. That's a little too much reality for me; too much how too many people in reality think.
The point of discussion is to let VR know what we want. They did ask for our input afterall. So, no, making an an assumption about what they will do and saving discussion for later appears counterproductive. I choose not to follow your advice.
That's fine you don't have too. But as Iksar has said I've beat this dead horse enough and I'm going to leave it where it lays, over 300 comments and not one person on the pro cosmetic gear side as come up with a single compromise, as for the pro real gear people have come up with 3 and somehow you keep turning them down for the most part, without coming up with one to see if it would work, so again I'm done, have fun commenting on this topic if you want, shot I'll even hand you my baseball bat if you don't have one.
Riahuf22 said:That's fine you don't have too. But as Iksar has said I've beat this dead horse enough and I'm going to leave it where it lays, over 300 comments and not one person on the pro cosmetic gear side as come up with a single compromise, as for the pro real gear people have come up with 3 and somehow you keep turning them down for the most part, without coming up with one to see if it would work, so again I'm done, have fun commenting on this topic if you want, shot I'll even hand you my baseball bat if you don't have one.
That argument is part of the problem. You say that pro-appearance gear folk have not come up with a compromise. Maybe that is the whole problem. Compromises should not really be the goal. Compromises tend to water down most great ideas in the name of making everyone happy by making no one happy.
I would rather VR make a decision that I am unhappy with than make a decision that everyone is unhappy with, just to say that they wanted a compromise.
Compromise should not be the goal. The goal should be maximizing overall fun. This is meant to be entertainment.
Riahuf22 said:last post seriously now
if i were to not compromise at all i would say get rid of all appearance gear as it holds no value to the game.
Which is a perfectly valid opinion and stance.
I campaign for a pure system, not a bastardization. I would prefer no appearance gear over giving me the option to express myself, only to have someone have the option of simply negate my choices.
Dont give me a choice if my choice doesn't matter. The illusion of choice is worse than no choice.