Forums » The Warrior

DPS/Utility Warrior

    • 61 posts
    November 3, 2019 9:50 PM PST

    I'm curious to get the Warrior communities thoughts and ideas about a Warrior solely focused on damage and banner utility.  In all of the streams Mr. McQuaid is seen playing his character, it appears as though he is duel-wielding as a Warrior and doing damage.  This could be because he does not want to tank on stream, or simply does not want to tank period.  I however understand Visionary Realms has taken the stance that a class is going to do one thing.  Warriors, Paladins and Dire Lords are Tanks.  Clerics, Shaman, and Druids are Healers, etc.

    To my knowledge, a significant amount of the Warriors abilties are through the use of a shield, but what is the probability that we can forgoe the use of a shield, and duel-wield instead?

    • 172 posts
    November 3, 2019 10:42 PM PST

    It was revealed a while back that for much of the gameplay up to this point - as in most of the streams that are out - some of the game rules were not implemented as an aid to testing. One of those not-implemented rules is the restriction on which races can play which classes. It's quite possible that weapon restriction is another of those rules not implemented at this stage of development. Brad has a longstanding fondness for his dual flaming swords lol.

    That said, I haven't heard any dev say that a warrior CAN'T dual wield. I don't think Warriors will do much 'serious' tanking without a sheild, but there's no reason why you can't take a Warrior and play DPS in a group with him (assuming some other tank is tanking).

    • 61 posts
    November 3, 2019 10:58 PM PST

    Right...  We've already learned Warriors can use any weapon they choose.  

    "All weapons, though Warriors are most suited for using shields in their off-hand, with several of their Tanking abilities requiring shields." - found on the class page.  

    I'm also not asking if they can Tank while duel-wielding.  I'm simply starting a discussion on weather it will be viable for a Warrior to act as a DPS and use their banners as utility; as opposed to Tanking and using their banners as utility.

    EDIT:  My guess is no, it will not be viable as Visionary Realms appears to be taking a stance of - each class excels at one thing.  I'm sure it will be doable, but will probably not be worth anyones time except the person having fun doing it.


    This post was edited by Talint at November 3, 2019 10:59 PM PST
    • 262 posts
    November 4, 2019 1:21 AM PST

    I'd assume that it will be viable, especially when you play with a friend who is also a warrior and likes to tank. He should be able to dish out decent dmg, but at the same time I do hope that he will never be able to come anywhere close to primary dps classes in terms of dmg output.

    • 61 posts
    November 4, 2019 2:39 AM PST

    The problem is, while I'm sure you'll do "fine" damage, you're not going to have that many abilities to use.  It appears as though a lot of the damage toolkit is going to come from the shield; shield slams, etc.  I hope there is some work around to this.  I tend to play Warrior in most games, but I like the idea of like a Conquerer.  Full plate swinging 1-handed weapons fearlessly.


    This post was edited by Talint at November 4, 2019 2:41 AM PST
    • 262 posts
    November 4, 2019 3:27 AM PST

    If devs will stay faithful to their current policy of one bar for skills, which could only be modified between fights, then I wouldn't worry - I'm pretty certain that there will be enough offensive only abilities not requiring a shield to fill one skill bar, not to mention offensive + utility abilities.

    • 2463 posts
    November 4, 2019 1:25 PM PST

    Brad isn't actually playing a warrior in the streams IIRC. He is his own unique class of "WarWizard." 

    Talint said:

    The problem is, while I'm sure you'll do "fine" damage, you're not going to have that many abilities to use.  It appears as though a lot of the damage toolkit is going to come from the shield; shield slams, etc.  I hope there is some work around to this.  I tend to play Warrior in most games, but I like the idea of like a Conquerer.  Full plate swinging 1-handed weapons fearlessly.

    We only have a small look at the total abilities for each class. 

     

    But to answer the original, no a warrior won't be able to reach near the same levels of DPS as DPS specific classes but they should be able to put out decent/average consistent numbers. Though if I remember right they had to change classes in a stream because they didn't have the damage to move deeper into the dungeon because they had two tanks. So groups can probably get by with two tanks with one doing DPS but they will have a notably harder time trying to push content at-level and above. 

    • 61 posts
    November 4, 2019 2:47 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    But to answer the original, no a warrior won't be able to reach near the same levels of DPS as DPS specific classes but they should be able to put out decent/average consistent numbers. Though if I remember right they had to change classes in a stream because they didn't have the damage to move deeper into the dungeon because they had two tanks. So groups can probably get by with two tanks with one doing DPS but they will have a notably harder time trying to push content at-level and above. 

     

    I'm not asking to do the same damage as a Rogue or Monk.  But at some point, utility has to match pure damage.  I understand that just from a realism standpoint someone swinging weapons in full platemail is going to be slower and more encumbered then someone doing the same thing in leather-type gear.  My point is, could it be, or will it be** that a Warrior can be brought as a DPS, solely for the utility aspect of banners as well as the "average" damage numbers they could potentially do duel-wielding or swinging a 2-handed weapon. 

     

     

    ** yes I know time will tell.


    This post was edited by Talint at November 4, 2019 2:47 PM PST
    • 2463 posts
    November 4, 2019 4:37 PM PST

    Talint said:

    I'm not asking to do the same damage as a Rogue or Monk.  But at some point, utility has to match pure damage.  I understand that just from a realism standpoint someone swinging weapons in full platemail is going to be slower and more encumbered then someone doing the same thing in leather-type gear.  My point is, could it be, or will it be** that a Warrior can be brought as a DPS, solely for the utility aspect of banners as well as the "average" damage numbers they could potentially do duel-wielding or swinging a 2-handed weapon. 

     

    ** yes I know time will tell.

    Time will tell, sure. 

     

    If I had to take a guess, I would lean toward no. If they do less damage but bring utility to the group that makes up for that missing DPS by buffing the group's combat efficiency, then they are just as valuable in a DPS slot as a DPS. Unless you had something else in mind there. 

    • 61 posts
    November 4, 2019 6:39 PM PST

    I'm confused by your statement.  Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?  You said you're leaning toward no- but then you said they'd be just as valuable.  I'm saying that I doubt they'll do as much damage as a Rogue (although I would like them to) but if they bring enough utility (IE. Banners, etc.) would it be possible that they could be brought in a DPS role, as a DPS.

    • 317 posts
    November 5, 2019 4:46 AM PST

    I don't see warriors ever truly functioning as a DPS regardless of weapons wielded, but utility could be a possibility.  Joppa has said that warrior banners will stack iirc.  Depending how well that plays out in testing... maybe a two warrior group could be viable.  We'll just have to wait and see.

    • 262 posts
    November 5, 2019 11:10 AM PST

    Though their banners are good pretty much only with the group consisting mainly of melee characters - so far the only caster related banner is Rallying Banner. I hope they'll be able to buff groups in which most members are ranged/casters in a more meaningful way.

    • 2463 posts
    November 5, 2019 11:19 AM PST

    Talint said:

    I'm confused by your statement.  Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?  You said you're leaning toward no- but then you said they'd be just as valuable.  I'm saying that I doubt they'll do as much damage as a Rogue (although I would like them to) but if they bring enough utility (IE. Banners, etc.) would it be possible that they could be brought in a DPS role, as a DPS.

    I am saying I don't see that happening. If they bring such utility that they make as much sense to bring as a DPS role for a DPS slot then the class will have far too much value outside of their main role that most other classes simply do not have. 

    • 61 posts
    November 5, 2019 12:45 PM PST

    Hegenox said:

    Though their banners are good pretty much only with the group consisting mainly of melee characters - so far the only caster related banner is Rallying Banner. I hope they'll be able to buff groups in which most members are ranged/casters in a more meaningful way.

     

    This is very true.  Thank you Hegenox.  I read all of the banners in their entirety but didn't really put two and two together in this case.  There are actually no banners that "buff" ranged/spellcaster damage.  Very interesting.  I guess my want of running around in full platemail swinging swords fearlessly isn't going to happen.  Dire Lord, here I come!  (Minus the platemail)

    • 262 posts
    November 5, 2019 3:33 PM PST

    Well it doesn't mean that they won't have them - current list of abilities is more like a preview to a class. But if you are looking for a melee class that can dish out decent dmg and take few hits while at it I'd look closer to Dire Lord or Ranger.

    • 1322 posts
    November 5, 2019 9:13 PM PST

    The answer to the question depends a lot on your perspective. 

    If you mean will a war be able to fill a dps slot in difficult/cutting edge content the answer is likely not, no. 

    If you mean can you have have 2 or 3 tanks in a normal, exp type, group then probably yes.  You just won't kill as fast as if you had a dps class in one of those slots.

    Do note that the war will still be a tank.  I don't think any amount of gearing or skilling for dps will put a warrior in the same realm as a true dps class.  Though maybe paladins bonuses towards undead might produce some decent dmg numbers as far as a tank doing damage but...we will have to wait and see.