Forums » The Skar

Skar Passives

    • 1696 posts
    October 23, 2019 6:43 PM PDT

    What do you all think?

    EDIT:  And the maximum health by 5 is actually 5%.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at October 23, 2019 6:43 PM PDT
    • 1696 posts
    October 23, 2019 7:04 PM PDT

    I'll say I'm disappointed, and here is why:

    1.  5% increase to maximum  health?  So if a Skar and a Human both have the same Stamina/Constitution that Human would have 100 HP and my Skar would have...105.  BIG EFFING DEAL.  5 HP is worthless.  Even if we got to 1000HP, the Skar would have 1050. FIFTY lousy hp. 

    2.  Fear resists?  Useful sure, situational though. 

    3.  Pack Hunter.  Ummm..really?  We're the only race that needs another of our race in our group to get a passive..and it's a 5% runspeed?  So after 100m 2 Skar would be 5M ahead of the rest of the group.  That is barely outside of melee range.  Again...barely useful.

    And what is up with the Skar having just 3 passives with a single disposition bonus while many other races have 4 passives and a disposition bonus? 

     

    Overall, I'm hugely disappointed with these passives.

     

    • 90 posts
    October 23, 2019 7:27 PM PDT

    what if % health if cumulative like it was in eq2? would be a huge boon. Fear resists, while situational again are often critical in those situations.

    • 1696 posts
    October 23, 2019 7:41 PM PDT

    Alyonyah said:

    what if % health if cumulative like it was in eq2? would be a huge boon. Fear resists, while situational again are often critical in those situations.

    If they had meant to say that the Skar gets a 5% increase in hitpoints per each point of Stamina or Constitution, then yes, the cumulatiave effect would be good.  But they said 5% to maximum health.  That isn't a cumulative effect.  Instead of having 100HP, you have 105HP.

    EDIT:

    So I was looking at the math for the HP and it made me even more disappointed in this particular passive.  First off be aware that the Dwarven passive is an HP increase for each point of stamina unlike the passive for the Skar.

    I'm going to start with a baseline HP/STA of just 4 for every race but with the Dwarves getting 5 HP/STA.  This is a 20% bonus. I'm also going to include raw HP that comes from items.  You get this:

    As you can see, the Dwarf gets the highest HP total due to the increase HP per Stamina.  Now lets increase the HP/STA a bit:

    Again, Dwarf is still higher.  Lets increase it yet again.

    Close!  Even with the Dwarf just getting a 6.25% bonus in HP per point of Stamina they still have more HP than the Skar.  Lets increase this yet again.

    And we finally reach the point, at 19 HP per Stamina where the Skar finally reaches the same HP as the Dwarf  This shows that at a 5.26% bonus to HP per each point of STA is nearly exactly the same as a 5% increase to HP total only when the HP/STA rate is 19:1.  NINETEEN to ONE.  Who realistically thinks that the HP/STA ratio will be that high?

    The Skar, then needs to ensure that it's gear has as much +HP as possible in order for its passive to have any real benefit.  So in the first example, the Skar would need 18 more raw HP from gear to get to 150.15 HP.

    If you picked up on it I made some pretty big assumptions.  The first being that  all the races get the same base STA to start. That is unlikely to be true.  So if the Skar have a lower base STA than the Dwarves, that further increases the importance of +HP gear because the Dwarf always gets a better return on each point of STA on gear. I also assumed that the gear worn provides the same raw HP. Using the first scenario as a foundation, but putting the Skar at just 10 base stamina, the Skar would need 75HP from gear just to match the HP of the Dwarf.

    What is the likelyhood that gear that the Skar can wear will have higher raw HP bonuses than gear the  Dwarf can wear?  Just to show how ridulous this is, if we use the last scenario but increase the HP/STA back to the 19:1, the Skar would need +121HP from gear where the Dwarf needsd only +25HP.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at October 24, 2019 8:08 AM PDT
    • 405 posts
    October 23, 2019 10:25 PM PDT

    Must say I agree. The pack run is a great concept, but should be a higher increase. Maybe 5% for every Skar group member or just a flat higher number, like 20% or higher. As is, the trait says, "up to a maximum of 5%", so I'd guess every group member grants 1%?

    Allowing groups of Skar to move considerably faster could balance well with their status in the world - everyone hates them, so they'd be very incentivized to stick together in order to escape from hostile factions. Would help realize the concept of the "Skar swarm" more effectively, too. They just need to be faster than 5%.

     

    The health is a bit of a strange one - I wouldn't mind removing it entirely for something different, more thematic. Maybe Skar would require much less food (freeing inventory slots), or have a greater chance to instill fear along with the heightened resistance. Skar Necromancer >=)


    This post was edited by Alexander at October 23, 2019 10:35 PM PDT
    • 1696 posts
    October 24, 2019 7:12 AM PDT

    Alexander said:

    Must say I agree. The pack run is a great concept, but should be a higher increase. Maybe 5% for every Skar group member or just a flat higher number, like 20% or higher. As is, the trait says, "up to a maximum of 5%", so I'd guess every group member grants 1%?

    Allowing groups of Skar to move considerably faster could balance well with their status in the world - everyone hates them, so they'd be very incentivized to stick together in order to escape from hostile factions. Would help realize the concept of the "Skar swarm" more effectively, too. They just need to be faster than 5%.

     

    The health is a bit of a strange one - I wouldn't mind removing it entirely for something different, more thematic. Maybe Skar would require much less food (freeing inventory slots), or have a greater chance to instill fear along with the heightened resistance. Skar Necromancer >=)

    As to your last point, I agree that changing it to something more appropriate to the Skar would be better.  I thought about it a bit and came up with this:

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Savage's Metabolism

    5% increase to Health, Stamina and Mana regen when consuming raw meat. Food consumption rate incresed by 20%.

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    My biggest problem with the runspeed is that it actually isn't helpful.  Think about it.  You're with a group moving from one zone to another.  What benefit is it to you to be running faster than your group?  You need to stick together.  Same if you're in a dungeon. A group that stays together and fights together is safer.

    If VR is to insist that there be a runspeed increase, it should 1) apply to the entire group and 2) not require a 2nd Skar to be present. A pack does not necessarily mean having another of your own kind present.  And really, is a quantity of 2 really synonymous with 'a pack'?  No.  A pack is more than 2.

    But lets think on this thematically again. We have a race that is primitive, savage, rough, violent. So why not things like these?

    Keen Blade

    2% increase in damage when using bladed weapons.

    or:

    Fouled Touch

    50% reduction to health/stamina regeneration rate of target.

    • 317 posts
    October 24, 2019 9:45 AM PDT

    What if the Pack Hunter description read "Increases movement speed by up to a maximum of 5% when in range of Skar's group members."  There was a typo in the description of Long Suffering that suggest that max health is raised by 5, when it actually is 5%.

    If the max of % movement speed is applied when the Skar is in range of any of his group members, not just other Skar, it makes a bit more sense to me.  Simple punctuation oversights can signifigantly alter meanings, and cause misunderstandings. Just a thought.

    • 1696 posts
    October 24, 2019 9:57 AM PDT

    Grymmlocke said:

    What if the Pack Hunter description read "Increases movement speed by up to a maximum of 5% when in range of Skar's group members."  There was a typo in the description of Long Suffering that suggest that max health is raised by 5, when it actually is 5%.

    If the max of % movement speed is applied when the Skar is in range of any of his group members, not just other Skar, it makes a bit more sense to me.  Simple punctuation oversights can signifigantly alter meanings, and cause misunderstandings. Just a thought.

    The runspeed bonus should apply to the whole group.  When the group, containing a Skar, are moving together, they should all run 5% faster.  This should stack with runspeed buffs.

    • 317 posts
    October 24, 2019 11:09 AM PDT

    Agreed @Vandraad. If a Skar character is in a group, the Pack Hunter bonus should apply to all group members, and absolutely let all other run speed buffs, such as the Rangers Vale Strider, stack... up to a point.  Put a cap on the max run speed that can be attained. Keep it reasonable... no hyper speeds please.

    • 218 posts
    October 24, 2019 11:29 AM PDT

    Id like to see:

    Skar Long suffering
    Maximum health increased by 5% health regen increased by 10%

    Fear of the nine gods
    grants an innate 20% resistance to fear effects

    Pack Hunter
    While in a group you and nearby allies move at 5% increased movment speed

    Swarm
    When you flank(from behind) an enemy you deal an aditional 3% damage

    Skar will have an advantage against the predatory disposition.

    • 405 posts
    October 24, 2019 12:39 PM PDT

    Agreed it should affect the Skar group, but doesn't it already say that? I'm sure the idea was meant to increase the run speed of an entire group of Skar.

    I don't mind it being restricted to Skar - it encourages the 'swarm' mentality. And little incentives for Skar to stick together seem cool to me, considering their lore. Just needs to be faster than 5% to feel like anything interesting. 5% per Skar member seems great. And I don't think I'd mind if the run speed only affected Skar group members in a mixed race group - it doesn't make much sense to me for the other races to become a part of their pack. Not that running 5 or 10% faster than the rest of their group would be particularly useful - but hey, some gameplay might emerge out of that, and it's still cool. The incentive would definitely be for a full pack of Skar though, scouring the countryside and the like.

     

    While we're thinking of alternative traits, how about this: Mask of Terror: Enemies are 5-10% less likely to resist fear or disorient affects.

     


    This post was edited by Alexander at October 24, 2019 12:40 PM PDT
    • 1696 posts
    October 24, 2019 1:10 PM PDT

    Alexander said:

    While we're thinking of alternative traits, how about this: Mask of Terror: Enemies are 5-10% less likely to resist fear or disorient affects.

    Bump it to 20% to match the resists other classes get to some effects and I'd be all for it.

    • 2463 posts
    October 24, 2019 4:11 PM PDT

    Extremely disappointed with Skar passives as it stands. For such an aggressive/ferocious/violent race to get nothing that really helps them meet those ends feels bad.

    Most races have straight up bonuses that are always active and helping in combat, extra bonuses to attack power which affects every single hit and/or extra bonuses for each stat point and/or flat +10 to certain combat skills (effectively fighting two levels higher with X than someone without). Skar have...5% extra health, or 50 bonus hp for every 1000. Something that very situationally might save your life/make a difference but most of the time (especially as a non-tank class) will be unnoticed. 

    Then they have a movespeed buff with pretty ridiculous requirements for a measly 5% increase (why not attack speed, especially if capped at 5% total and requiring multiple of a specific race in the group?). 

    And most useful but very situationally useful (if luck is on your side): 20% fear resist chance. 

     

    Not even acid/toxic resists or anything like that. 

     

    I certainly hope either this stuff changes or their active racial blows the other races out of the water in terms of usefulness/effectiveness and uptime availability. 

    • 42 posts
    October 24, 2019 6:57 PM PDT

    Defintely feel like we got the short end of the stick with racial passives. If were going to have a racial passive that comes into effect only when we are grouped with other Skar, then it really needs to be worth it. Movement speed boost isn't enough.

    • 1696 posts
    October 24, 2019 7:03 PM PDT

    Ok, so I've been thinking more about the 5% HP boost and if it were applied to more things.  I'm assuming that we will receive some amount of HP each time we level.  The Skar 5% bonus would apply to that. 

    Basically from these numbers even this 5% applied as I've done it here shows that the spread between default, Dwarf and Skar is miniscule.

    • 363 posts
    October 25, 2019 4:33 PM PDT

    Average health at level 50 is 1000. Skar will have 1050 whereas some other races 1000. It's my guess like the Human 2% haste that these are the more miniscule statistical varieties which begs to question why this isn't commonplace through all races? 

    • 1625 posts
    October 26, 2019 2:36 AM PDT

    I suppose most passives are disappointing when they do not fit the idea we had and the race/class combo we had in mind.

     

    Dark myr as an example are really underwhelming if you're not a rogue, and even then the passive aren't much of battle oriented. On the other hand, ogres seem overpowered until you remember they can only be healers and tanks.

     

    Dwarves are really strong for a tank class with the immunity to disarm and higher health per stamina, but if you play something else than warrior or paladin the racial are only situationnaly if not at all usefull.

     

    Skar racials are not oriented into one or other class, on that behalf they are quite good. However they all are situationnal, which is common with alot of other races ones.

     

    In the end, it's not racials that would make me determine the combo I want to play and on that behalf I thank the dev for making things that aren't so much of a tradeoff. Perhaps my only concern remain the dwarf immunity to disarm but that's depending of what disarm mean in pantheon : Do you loose all weapon damage ? The ability to use skills requiring a weapon ? Anything else ?

    • 405 posts
    October 27, 2019 1:01 AM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Skar racials are not oriented into one or other class, on that behalf they are quite good. However they all are situationnal, which is common with alot of other races ones.

    But do you think a 5% increase to hp and a 5% run speed increase (if grouped with.. 5 other Skar?) are a little low?

    • 1625 posts
    October 27, 2019 5:01 AM PDT

    Alexander said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Skar racials are not oriented into one or other class, on that behalf they are quite good. However they all are situationnal, which is common with alot of other races ones.

    But do you think a 5% increase to hp and a 5% run speed increase (if grouped with.. 5 other Skar?) are a little low?

    No I don't. 5% HP is solid in any situation and more would have make the skar the "to go" race for tanks.

    5% Movespeed that will probably stack with everything else is good even if situationnal. More would have make PVP unbearable against skar teams.

    • 405 posts
    October 27, 2019 6:27 PM PDT

    Good to have a counter opinion. I'd change the hp trait for something else, as hp seems too problematic. 

     

    And 5% max speed increase for a group of 6 Skar seems lacking to me, but maybe that incremental gain is more effective than it seems. Quite easy to change those numbers on a pvp server, Id imagine - but even still, the idea of Skar hordes terrorizing the pvpscape seems OK to me. I like the idea of them feeling a little extra dangerous in pvp, especially considering their faction disadvantages. That'd only be for groups of 6 Skar. But again, they could be faster in pve servers than pvp if it was unacceptable?

     

    But good points, I hadnt thought anything higher than a 5% max increase  could lead to serious pvp issues. 


    This post was edited by Alexander at October 27, 2019 6:32 PM PDT
  • Wig
    • 207 posts
    November 1, 2019 2:36 PM PDT
    I’m surprised Skar didn’t get Toxic resistance and health regen. Either way I’m a bit disappointed. I hope the races with weak passive racials will have very good active racials and vice versa for the races that have great passives.
    • 57 posts
    November 4, 2019 11:50 AM PST

    Kellie said:

    Id like to see:

    Skar Long suffering
    Maximum health increased by 5% health regen increased by 10%

    Fear of the nine gods
    grants an innate 20% resistance to fear effects

    Pack Hunter
    While in a group you and nearby allies move at 5% increased movment speed

    Swarm
    When you flank(from behind) an enemy you deal an aditional 3% damage

    Skar will have an advantage against the predatory disposition.

     

    Yes, Yes, and Yes. I totally agree. Skars need health regen in my personal opinion. I like the rest of what you said also.

    • 1696 posts
    November 4, 2019 2:20 PM PST

    I think that for all races, their X% increase chance to resist should be 100% chance..just like the damn Dwarves and their Disarm.  Percentage based chances suck. You can very easily not resist something even with a 20% increased chance because each attempt to resist does not affect the outcome of the next chance.

  • Wig
    • 207 posts
    November 5, 2019 7:22 AM PST
    Wow classic has orcs with a 25% chance to resist stun and it happens quite often. I think 20% is a good number, however, I’m still not fond of skars racials. I’m trying my hardest to convince myself.
    • 10 posts
    November 8, 2019 4:05 PM PST

    i was disappointed as well. maybe a percent to run speed plus attach speed plus crit and id look for others. so for ogres have more crit chance and scaling damage too boot. too situational for me on the skar. but i hate ogres. maybe keep ogres with strength to damage but give scar the crit bonus.  Perhaps

    Ogres can get health per point of strength, 5% of health to start

    Skar can get regen per point of strength, crit, attack speed, based on stat or straight percentage.


    This post was edited by Napalmangel at November 12, 2019 5:42 AM PST