Alyonyah said:I remember fondly in both EQ as well as vanguard the BOTB tournaments.....
What I always wondered was why was a pvp system never implemented that simply squared a class off against itself perpetually for perhaps a class specific over the top item. Basically just a best of the best tournament that happened every 6 months or so. With qualifying for finals happening between the actual events. I realize it would require GMs but if this was a popular pvp system which I believe it would be... wouldnt that be worth while? I see no other way to trully balance pvp in a pve centric game and I would like to have both options in THIS game. I think perhaps some trully epic class weapon that went well with your quested epic.... but only one per server (artifact).... if your the defending champ and you lose the pvp match you lose the item and the winner recieves it for the next alotted period however long that may be.... thoughts?
Reposting this here since people respond to anything in this forum apparently. Does anyone have any feedback concerning my idea for balanced pvp?
The BOTB tourneys were terribly popular... and fun/memorable/balanced...... but one time events. Seems like perhaps an automated system could be put in place? Does this community hate pvp so much that no one will mention it? I noticed "pvp" returns few results in the search. Im not a pvp oriented person either.... Im pve all the way, but I do see the value in having an engaging side system in the game in fact id like to see as many of those as reasonably possible.
Alyonyah said:The BOTB tourneys were terribly popular... and fun/memorable/balanced...... but one time events. Seems like perhaps an automated system could be put in place? Does this community hate pvp so much that no one will mention it? I noticed "pvp" returns few results in the search. Im not a pvp oriented person either.... Im pve all the way, but I do see the value in having an engaging side system in the game in fact id like to see as many of those as reasonably possible.
pvp is pretty taboo here and i'm a pvper. it draws some... bitter memories for many so they've abstained from pk ambrosia.
i just finding it interesting that many pve frustrations can be easily solved with pvp
for example:
i've been grinding a camp for 2 hours and someone disrupts my location.
instead of having some elaborate reporting system i'll just slay the idiot where he stands.
if he can take it from my cold dead heads then it's his.
it's a pretty savage way to look at it, but pvp means that if i can defend it, it's mines. if i can take it, it's mines. everything else is open for grabs.
most pvpers don't even bother having dialogue with it pvers. it's pointless because the devs aren't building the game with pvp in mind.
with that being said... what pvpers are thinking is that we'll just remain quiet so we can exploit certain spells or mechanics to give them the edge which devs lacked insight on.
now i don't know this botb tournament you're speaking of.
hopefully pvers and pvpers that choose to speak, we could agree to a civil discussion:
is it like a 3v3 tournament ladder?
I don't get these threads. They get posted over and over with the same results. This isn't a PVP game. VR is already struggling to do what they need to do to make the game at all. If something like a quarterly BOTB tournament with a yearly final existed, that would be fun, but it's so far out of scope for the game right now. There are dozens of other fun little ideas that would be cool to see that can't make it because they simply don't have the resources. Do we want persistent, consistent, reliable, available GM presence in game, and responsive, attentive, helpful customer service outside of the game, or do we want them spending those resources organizing PVP tournaments? Because at some point it's going to boil down to that. We can't have it all. Additionally, adding "epic" gear to a PVE game that was earned in PVP has no place in the game, imo.
Keno Monster said:I don't get these threads. They get posted over and over with the same results. This isn't a PVP game. VR is already struggling to do what they need to do to make the game at all. If something like a quarterly BOTB tournament with a yearly final existed, that would be fun, but it's so far out of scope for the game right now. There are dozens of other fun little ideas that would be cool to see that can't make it because they simply don't have the resources. Do we want persistent, consistent, reliable, available GM presence in game, and responsive, attentive, helpful customer service outside of the game, or do we want them spending those resources organizing PVP tournaments? Because at some point it's going to boil down to that. We can't have it all. Additionally, adding "epic" gear to a PVE game that was earned in PVP has no place in the game, imo.
yea that's why it's kind of pointless to discuss it now XD
we know it's not going to be balanced for pvp (and pvpers tend to cry about this class is op and imba and dad da dad da)
honestly as a pvper, it's going to be fun and frustrating to deal with pvp exploits. i look forward to seeing how unintended effects are going to go XD
i'm a pretty firm believer in actions speaking louder than words. sometimes instead of talking, i just need to put that dirty mob train griefers face in the ground and stab him in the leg keeping him alive only to have his mobs he trained slowly kill him as he struggles helplessly to defend himself.
anyways it'll be fine since we'll be on separate servers. could you explain what a botb tournament is?
Keno Monster said:I don't get these threads. They get posted over and over with the same results. This isn't a PVP game. VR is already struggling to do what they need to do to make the game at all. If something like a quarterly BOTB tournament with a yearly final existed, that would be fun, but it's so far out of scope for the game right now. There are dozens of other fun little ideas that would be cool to see that can't make it because they simply don't have the resources. Do we want persistent, consistent, reliable, available GM presence in game, and responsive, attentive, helpful customer service outside of the game, or do we want them spending those resources organizing PVP tournaments? Because at some point it's going to boil down to that. We can't have it all. Additionally, adding "epic" gear to a PVE game that was earned in PVP has no place in the game, imo.
"It would be fun" All I needed to hear. Thanks for your feedback.
ipDRe said:If the game has a PvP option, which we've heard it will, then I'll be playing it. It's generally not supported well on this forum but it doesn't hurt to try. I love competition, I'm all for it. How to do it, not sure.
pvp will be on a separate server 100% look forward to experiencing the harsh world of terminus with ya :D
your highlighted bit... i'd like to share a poem:
Sone no Yoshitada
Like a mariner
Sailing over Yura's strait
With his rudder gone:
Where, over the deep of love,
The end lies, I do not know.
Yura no to o
Wataru funabito
Kaji o tae
Yukue mo shiranu
Koi no michi kana
Alyonyah said:Keno Monster said:I don't get these threads. They get posted over and over with the same results. This isn't a PVP game. VR is already struggling to do what they need to do to make the game at all. If something like a quarterly BOTB tournament with a yearly final existed, that would be fun, but it's so far out of scope for the game right now. There are dozens of other fun little ideas that would be cool to see that can't make it because they simply don't have the resources. Do we want persistent, consistent, reliable, available GM presence in game, and responsive, attentive, helpful customer service outside of the game, or do we want them spending those resources organizing PVP tournaments? Because at some point it's going to boil down to that. We can't have it all. Additionally, adding "epic" gear to a PVE game that was earned in PVP has no place in the game, imo.
"It would be fun" All I needed to hear. Thanks for your feedback.
It would be fun.
Theres only two types of PVP, in my opinion, that would be acceptable with pantheon, both are in a controlled environment..
The first is a server dedicated to Pvp players, and the second is an arena that contestants who wish to do Pvp (Duels) for sport, or combat various creatures (PVE) can sign up and enter the arena where other players can spectate and place bets. I would enjoy watching the show in an arena style environment.
I certainly don't want to find a rogue’s dagger in my back as I'm clearing trash out of my back slots, again.
HemlockReaper said:Theres only two types of PVP, in my opinion, that would be acceptable with pantheon, both are in a controlled environment..
The first is a server dedicated to Pvp players, and the second is an arena that contestants who wish to do Pvp (Duels) for sport, or combat various creatures (PVE) can sign up and enter the arena where other players can spectate and place bets. I would enjoy watching the show in an arena style environment.I certainly don't want to find a rogue’s dagger in my back as I'm clearing trash out of my back slots, again.
for those that want to understand the mind of a pvper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zna9-8RGQro the short version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_hNZ5T4nY&t=1776s the long scientific version
i think to some degree this is what a pvpers are looking to achieve. having a chance that a rogue's dagger could end up is what gives us an opportunity to learn and excel in an unexpected situation. i understand where you're coming from though. some days are long and we just want to relax and that's the last thing you need.
wouldn't you find it more entertaining if i killed a player that was training mobs on you? not only that i made him die the most embarrassing death possible?
a person usually engaged in training mobs are very susceptable to cc... hehe would be a shame if someone happened to mezz him.
stellarmind said:HemlockReaper said:Theres only two types of PVP, in my opinion, that would be acceptable with pantheon, both are in a controlled environment..
The first is a server dedicated to Pvp players, and the second is an arena that contestants who wish to do Pvp (Duels) for sport, or combat various creatures (PVE) can sign up and enter the arena where other players can spectate and place bets. I would enjoy watching the show in an arena style environment.I certainly don't want to find a rogue’s dagger in my back as I'm clearing trash out of my back slots, again.
for those that want to understand the mind of a pvper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zna9-8RGQro the short version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG_hNZ5T4nY&t=1776s the long scientific version
i think to some degree this is what a pvpers are looking to achieve. having a chance that a rogue's dagger could end up is what gives us an opportunity to learn and excel in an unexpected situation. i understand where you're coming from though. some days are long and we just want to relax and that's the last thing you need.
wouldn't you find it more entertaining if i killed a player that was training mobs on you? not only that i made him die the most embarrassing death possible?
a person usually engaged in training mobs are very susceptable to cc... hehe would be a shame if someone happened to mezz him.
I think the mind of the Pvper is irrelevant, This is primarily a game based around the PVE Experience, and while I would welcome the option to engage in PVP, it would have to be Optional.
To your question about “wouldn't you find it more entertaining if i killed a player that was training mobs on you? not only that i made him die the most embarrassing death possible?”
I would rather that situation be dealt with by a GM if the player(s) was found to be in violation of a rule, (Harassment,Exploits ect..) I don't need, nor do I want a “protector” from another player.
HemlockReaper said:I think the mind of the Pvper is irrelevant, This is primarily a game based around the PVE Experience, and while I would welcome the option to engage in PVP, it would have to be Optional.
To your question about “wouldn't you find it more entertaining if i killed a player that was training mobs on you? not only that i made him die the most embarrassing death possible?”
I would rather that situation be dealt with by a GM if the player(s) was found to be in violation of a rule, (Harassment,Exploits ect..) I don't need, nor do I want a “protector” from another player.
it's to give a perspective, but that's okay. it'll be fine though pvpers will have there own servers confirmed. if 187 was here he'd probably link it O.o hmm i never thought about it as 'protecting' another player. i view it as... teaching manners haha XD
ps could you tell me what botb is? i tried looking it up i don't know what it means and no one has defined it for me yet.
best of the best tournaments. every server let everyone duel till the top player on each server of each class was detirmined. Then a seperate server was made where the winners were copied to, and then they duked it out as well for the serverwide best of the best titles. I dont know why everyones so crusty here. Just discussing ideas.
Alyonyah said:best of the best tournaments. every server let everyone duel till the top player on each server of each class was detirmined. Then a seperate server was made where the winners were copied to, and then they duked it out as well for the serverwide best of the best titles. I dont know why everyones so crusty here. Just discussing ideas.
what that sounds so cool OwO
it's fine everyone is pretty exhausted about pvp talk and it tends to get pretty hostile both ways so it's kind of an unwritten rule now not to discuss it.
i'd really like this idea, maybe the devs will keep it in the back of their minds.
I'm sure the devs will allow /duel and no doubt people will organise things like this BOTB competition.
This is just the kind of thing that the devs *should* leave up to the community. They can organise it and offer prizes and all that jazz.
As for using PvP to resolve conflict... yeah. Same old arguments. Griefing someone who griefs you is always the best solution... Just like resolving an argument by talking louder and longer...
disposalist said:I'm sure the devs will allow /duel and no doubt people will organise things like this BOTB competition.
This is just the kind of thing that the devs *should* leave up to the community. They can organise it and offer prizes and all that jazz.
As for using PvP to resolve conflict... yeah. Same old arguments. Griefing someone who griefs you is always the best solution... Just like resolving an argument by talking louder and longer...
I agree the above is a bad implementation of pvp. But a BOTB competition is fair and honest, as well as honorable. The BOTB were organized by devs as well, and was in my memory another creation of the original EQ dev crew. How ironic. That event was completely iconic and the memory of those times persists some 20 years later. Very engaging..... Every new PVE based game that comes out always hums and haws at the fact it cannot balance pvp and thus cannot implement a pvp system thats not just for show..... but this system would make pvp completely balanced with the exception of the work that the individual has invested into the character through gearing/mastering of the class, which to my mind is fair. Very little extra coding would be needed to create the system because essentially creating the classes of the game itself IS the whole pvp system. Seems like a no brainer to me. Its win win from all sides.
Alyonyah said:I agree the above is a bad implementation of pvp. But a BOTB competition is fair and honest, as well as honorable. The BOTB were organized by devs as well, and was in my memory another creation of the original EQ dev crew. How ironic. That event was completely iconic and the memory of those times persists some 20 years later. Very engaging..... Every new PVE based game that comes out always hums and haws at the fact it cannot balance pvp and thus cannot implement a pvp system thats not just for show..... but this system would make pvp completely balanced with the exception of the work that the individual has invested into the character through gearing/mastering of the class, which to my mind is fair. Very little extra coding would be needed to create the system because essentially creating the classes of the game itself IS the whole pvp system. Seems like a no brainer to me. Its win win from all sides.
i would take the botb a step further and make it a 3v3 though. given the mechanics of the game and the orientation of community class interdependence, this would be a much better move than 1v1.
Alyonyah said:I remember fondly in both EQ as well as vanguard the BOTB tournaments.....
What I always wondered was why was a pvp system never implemented that simply squared a class off against itself perpetually for perhaps a class specific over the top item. Basically just a best of the best tournament that happened every 6 months or so. With qualifying for finals happening between the actual events. I realize it would require GMs but if this was a popular pvp system which I believe it would be... wouldnt that be worth while? I see no other way to trully balance pvp in a pve centric game and I would like to have both options in THIS game. I think perhaps some trully epic class weapon that went well with your quested epic.... but only one per server (artifact).... if your the defending champ and you lose the pvp match you lose the item and the winner recieves it for the next alotted period however long that may be.... thoughts?
I think this idea is fantastic. I know pvp is a bit taboo to discuss on these forums, but I was always a lover of rp/pvp. Realm based, race based, whatever. I like it. And your idea wouldn't be forcing it on anyone. It'd simply be using an area (Rathe Arena, Qeynos Colliseum, etc) that already auto flags you to pvp, to facilitate an orderly event. Completely voluntary. I hope to see events like this on all servers, not just pvp ones.