The amount of followers someone has right now holds no bearing on whether or not I would consider them an up and comer. There are a few things to look for -- do they produce quality content, and do they have the conviction to keep doing it? If someone demonstrates that they can make a few quality videos, or host a few awesome streams ... as long as they have the passion in them to continue doing it, many people out there want to help them. That's just human nature for a lot of people. You see someone putting in the time and effort early on and if you believe in them, you feel compelled to help them out because you feel their work is worthy of an attentive audience. It isn't fair to compare someone who streams with no intent or purpose to someone else who has a plan and long-term vision. Colonelfouts ... you do you ... believe in yourself and focus on accomplishing your goals. History and reality both suggest that if you produce quality content for this game on a consistent basis ... you will build an audience. This kind of game is all about community and it's been a pleasant surprise to see how welcoming and encouraging ours has been for the up and comers.
oneADseven said:The amount of followers someone has right now holds no bearing on whether or not I would consider them an up and comer. There are a few things to look for -- do they produce quality content, and do they have the conviction to keep doing it? If someone demonstrates that they can make a few quality videos, or host a few awesome streams ... as long as they have the passion in them to continue doing it, many people out there want to help them. That's just human nature for a lot of people. You see someone putting in the time and effort early on and if you believe in them, you feel compelled to help them out because you feel their work is worthy of an attentive audience. It isn't fair to compare someone who streams with no intent or purpose to someone else who has a plan and long-term vision. Colonelfouts ... you do you ... believe in yourself and focus on accomplishing your goals. History and reality both suggest that if you produce quality content for this game on a consistent basis ... you will build an audience. This kind of game is all about community and it's been a pleasant surprise to see how welcoming and encouraging ours has been for the up and comers.
The streets of Hollywood is full of people that believed in themselves.....
I'm not saying that he might not eventually become a "quality streamer". I am saying that the reality is that, not only does it take alot more than just believing in yourself and making quality content, it takes a certain, not insubstantial, amount of luck.
That said, it's not Visionary Realm's responsibility to make that happen. That is *NOT* the purpose of their streamer program, which is what his complaint is about.
I'm not saying that VR has a responsibility to do anything ... but based on historical precedence, there have been several streamers involved in the program who didn't have an established audience. For all intents and purposes, it's already been demonstrated that VR is willing to allow homegrown community members into their streaming program. There are people on here suggesting that the streaming program is all about exposure to new people. They are wrong. Several featured streamers built their channel/community/audience from Pantheon content exclusively. In other words, they weren't bringing new people in ... they were keeping existing members engaged through their reach.
Haters are going to hate because misery loves company. LOL. Twisting what people say and trying to turn minor things into arguments show you for the miserable hater you are and I'm not going down that path with you. I'll always do my best to give words of encouragement to people that have motivation and a drive to achieve goals and people that love to hate and play the victim card will always get nothing from me.
I agree with you oneADseven, but you are trying to reason with people that can not be reasoned with.
Now haters flame away and do that voodoo that you do. I'm going to go play with my kids and "enjoy" life. I have had enough of war and fighting to last me a life time.
colonelfouts said: Some of those people are only trying to stream for their own financial reasons and not necessarily to show the game in the best way it could/should be.
I would have to agree with this statement, not that they are all in for this reason but when a game is not even on alpha and the stream content has negative vibes, it should be carefully considered by VR.
I don't watch streamers. A lot of the audience for Pantheon is not big on that format since we are an older crowd. Since Pantheon wants to get the interest of the youngins it makes sense to promote it with streamers with a bit of an actual following. The guy with 2 people watching is not going to do much for promotion of the game that's the bottom line. You'll be able to stream it to your hearts content once open beta/launch begins.
@Colonelfouts As someone who is passionate about Pantheon and definitely plans on streaming it once it goes live, I feel your pain. However, I also understand how VR has to be extremely careful about how content is released at this stage in development. As the adage goes, one "Doh" will eliminate ten "Kudos", especially since videos have the potential to reach a much wider audience than other information about the game. I'm taking this time as a chance to learn, grow and develop, working out technical issues, improving my streaming skills, and even more important to me, honing in on exactly what the content of my stream is going to be. As others have said, persistence and patience will take us far!
colonelfouts said: I guess the long and short of it is that I'd rather see bazgrim (for example or someone like him) with relatively few followers that someone like.....DR. Disrespect who has thousands but doesn't play Mmos and would be doing it for the sake of his stream and not the game. Idk if that makes sense or I'm just having difficulty explaining it clearly. I've supported the dev's up to this point and I'm sure they will make educated decisions that are best for us the community and game.
Dr. Disrespect isn't going to sign up for the streamer program. As you said, he doesn't like to stream MMOs. He *HAS* done so, but mostly to mock them.
You seem to have forgotten that you must go sign up for the streamer program, the streamer program doesn't go out looking for "busy" streamers. They will choose betwen the signups that they get. That blows out some of the cruft, like the people who do not play MMOs, but may have hundreds of thousands of subs. I'd imagine that the following list will be some of the "more well known (even if only in our community) streamers that will sign up: Bazgrim, CohhCarnage (he genuinely likes the game), Nathan Napalm, Saicred, DocGotGame, and TheHiveLeader. Jim Lee may or may not, but I am doubting it. I don't think he has the time to dedicate to it. He's a busy man and doesn't make his living off his streams.
I must admit I was a little disappointed the Streaming Program was only going to happen for 'established' streamers, but maybe it will change. To be fair, the NDA will lift at some point (in Alpha? Beta?) and then I'll be able to stream.
I have 650ish subs for my YouTube channel that I set up really just to learn how it worked for fun. I started just making 'how to' videos because friends I play Battlefield with kept asking me questions ( I play much more than them) and I thought it would be easier often to show them and maybe others would also be interested. I rarely streamed because *shrug* who would want to watch me play? I don't watch streamers myself hehe, though I do watch edite gameplay vid guides and whatnot.
I did stream a few times just for fun with my Friday night RL friends and a few times because something new was happening in game and subs asked me to show them (since I had early access). I think the most viewers I ever had was 20 or so! Woohoo! It was great, though, having live feedback and being able to try stuff out that people asked me to.
I'd like to stream Pantheon, but I'm almost more looking forward to being able to make 'how to' videos and guides and whatnot. I'm going to see if I can grow my channel with Pantheon, but it's just a hobby really.
I can see why VR would want more control over what is shown and how it's shown at this stage, though.
Kalok said:oneADseven said:The amount of followers someone has right now holds no bearing on whether or not I would consider them an up and comer. There are a few things to look for -- do they produce quality content, and do they have the conviction to keep doing it? If someone demonstrates that they can make a few quality videos, or host a few awesome streams ... as long as they have the passion in them to continue doing it, many people out there want to help them. That's just human nature for a lot of people. You see someone putting in the time and effort early on and if you believe in them, you feel compelled to help them out because you feel their work is worthy of an attentive audience. It isn't fair to compare someone who streams with no intent or purpose to someone else who has a plan and long-term vision. Colonelfouts ... you do you ... believe in yourself and focus on accomplishing your goals. History and reality both suggest that if you produce quality content for this game on a consistent basis ... you will build an audience. This kind of game is all about community and it's been a pleasant surprise to see how welcoming and encouraging ours has been for the up and comers.
I'm not saying that he might not eventually become a "quality streamer". I am saying that the reality is that, not only does it take alot more than just believing in yourself and making quality content, it takes a certain, not insubstantial, amount of luck.
That said, it's not Visionary Realm's responsibility to make that happen. That is *NOT* the purpose of their streamer program, which is what his complaint is about.
I concur.
The streets of Twitch are littered with wannbe game players that think they are streamers.
VR needs cash. Cash equals bodies and resources.
Nobody wants billyfortnight and his 2 followers streaming Pantheon pre-alpha. It's not a good look for VR and definitely not a good thing for anyone that actually wants to see and hear any Pantheon content in a reasonable format.
Having a pc and webcam does not make you a streamer. It makes you a gamer with a webcam.
Having a youtube page and lots of bots, does not make you anything. Stop whining.
Cohh is by far the most professional and seasoned. And does the best job at presenting the content in a quality format. Others, not so much. Most, very not so much.
"Cohh is by far the most professional and seasoned. And does the best job at presenting the content in a quality format. Others, not so much. Most, very not so much."
I couldn't agree more. Some are, for lack of a better term, cringy. Either there's no personality or they have the wrong personality for streaming. Pantheon is not a game that new or emergent streamers are going to be able to use as their platform for growth. It'll be hard even within the Pantheon demographic as this being a classic MMORPG and not designed around the amorphous blob that's been migrating from game to game (WoW, Minecraft, League of Legends, Overwatch, PUBG, Fortnite etc.).
What VR wants are streamers with a somewhat large following, but not too large and with a targeted demographic who would be interested in a classic MMORPG. If you target larger streamers like Ninja, TimTheTatman, Imaqtpie, Shroud, DrLupo, Dyrus or others to use an example, not only would they be hesitant but it will probably cost a lot of money and on top of that, you'll get a demographic who will run roughshot over the game and demand changes as well as drive negative PR by word of mouth with regard to misunderstandings as to the opened development process and with the concept of the Classic MMORPG.
Targeted streamers that are midline for the appropriate type of players is more valuable and at this early of the process you want an audience larger than 1000 people since we're talking about streams months apart. As the game is further along the Alpha process and into Beta, you'll see the openness to allow for more streaming with more streamers of whom have smaller subscriber counts. That could be subs in the low 100s and that's subs, not views for that particular stream.
For those with 1-50 subscribers, it's best to expect you to stream when they allow for opened streaming which is in the latter beta phase closer to opened beta.
It really comes down to finding a streamer who has a somewhat large following who has played Everquest or other 1st or 2nd generation MMORPGs and has at least some interest in Pantheon. So far for a number of them (not all), VR has chosen well. It's about finding that balance of following, the right type of viewerbase and the right type of streamer.