Forums » Pantheon Classes

Hybrid Melee Physical/Magical DPS?

    • 34 posts
    July 9, 2019 3:12 PM PDT

    So I have always wanted to have a hybrid melee DPS class that mixes Magical and Physical damages and a lot of the time I'd love to see something like a black knight or an equivalent of the Reaver or the Vampyr in DAoC but having more emphasis on magic damage.

    It could be a class with the same armor as a rogue using 2handed weapons, dual wielding.
    The dual wielding could be either one weapon on each hand or one weapon in the right hand and the left hand free that is casting spell.
    Many times I have been drawn to Shadow Knight, Dreadknight and the like and potentially the Dire lord in Pantheon but they are mostly tanks and that saddens me.
    I have played tanks a lot while I just wanted to have a DPS with a mix of damage and dark necromantic spells.

    Will there be a way to direct the class we are playing toward specific end like having a direlord being more damaging and than being an aggro maching and hit sponge?
    I don't really want to talk about future classes because with alpha not really being announced and the amount of class already mentioned (+ necromancer eventually), I don't think it's time to add up to potential additional class would come along!

    Would that be a concept that interest more players? Is it something the dev did thought about but left it because of some problems?


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 9, 2019 7:53 PM PDT
    • 578 posts
    July 10, 2019 12:34 AM PDT

    It will very likely be possible to gear out a direlord to maximize the damage - but that still wouldn't make them competitive with true DPS classes. It would create too many balancing issues...if a tank class (direlore) could switch to another role (dps) through gearing, then the other classes might rightfully ask for the same treatment.

    But that would blur the lines between the roles, and the game tenets state that clear class roles are intended. I wouldn't expect to be able to switch roles on any class, although you may be able to step up in some cases (for example, monks can probably offtank a bit).

    • 658 posts
    July 10, 2019 2:31 PM PDT

    What @Sarim said.  I will however add that although a class has a specific role, that doesn't always mean they won't be able to perform another role better than another class specifically designed for that role simply based on the combination of gear, level, player skill and even certain situations.  

    With the exception of a few classes, anyone will be able to perform damage, just not as much as say a Wizard that doesn't may not rely on proximity as much as others.  An enchanter will always have the CC role, and likely crush some of the "DPS" classes due to situational circumstances (if a rogue can't get behind the target or the target isn't stationary, or the enemies are all spread out or in areas unreachable by melees etc etc...).

    • 34 posts
    July 10, 2019 5:11 PM PDT

    I think I wish that the class choices would be a bit more original than the overused:
    Warrior/Paladin/Wizard/Rogue/Cleric/Ranger/Druid/Shaman, etc.
    Maybe their gameplay will be different enough that it will be great but the name at least doesn't feel like I am discovering something new.

    I understand we need to have a good base as in: you need class that ppl need to identify quickly their role and that everyone has a rought idea of what it does.
    But when I see the classes of Pantheon, only the Direlord seems somewhat different... 
    If the classes are so focused on one role we might aswell have classes with the name of their role:
    Tank
    Physical melee DPS
    Physical ranged DPS
    Magical Ranged DPS
    Healer

    I know it kinda breaks immersion, but that is how Warrior/Rogue etc. sounds to me, and I wish the player could have more ways to express themselves through their characters' role rather than being:
    Warrior#3D578AA0E2 is looking for group
    Healer#2456BBAF00 has just logged in

    I am still very excited about the game I just feel the classes being too restrained or classic for my taste :(.


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 10, 2019 5:12 PM PDT
    • 658 posts
    July 11, 2019 11:37 AM PDT

    Very fair point @Khraag.  I think their emphasis of game uniqueness and player immersion is relying more on the environmental and atmospheric effects (PVE) of the game as opposed to the immersion through character RP.  (They would allow players to make more choices on "who" or "what" they wanted to "roleplay" as if RP had a higher priority than PvE.  I've come to terms with players being cookiecutter molds of each other (aside from player skill - which we don't yet know if skill will be something that can "clearly" seperate players from one-another).  If you see a Paladin, there's a 100% chance they are a dwarf or human... (I would've said 50% chance it is a human, but that would actually be grossly innacurate because there could very likely be more humans than dwarves.)

    • 79 posts
    July 11, 2019 5:11 PM PDT

    Khraag said:

    I think I wish that the class choices would be a bit more original than the overused:
    Warrior/Paladin/Wizard/Rogue/Cleric/Ranger/Druid/Shaman, etc.
    Maybe their gameplay will be different enough that it will be great but the name at least doesn't feel like I am discovering something new.

    I understand we need to have a good base as in: you need class that ppl need to identify quickly their role and that everyone has a rought idea of what it does.
    But when I see the classes of Pantheon, only the Direlord seems somewhat different... 
    If the classes are so focused on one role we might aswell have classes with the name of their role:
    Tank
    Physical melee DPS
    Physical ranged DPS
    Magical Ranged DPS
    Healer

    I know it kinda breaks immersion, but that is how Warrior/Rogue etc. sounds to me, and I wish the player could have more ways to express themselves through their characters' role rather than being:
    Warrior#3D578AA0E2 is looking for group
    Healer#2456BBAF00 has just logged in

    I am still very excited about the game I just feel the classes being too restrained or classic for my taste :(.

     

    The pantheon classes have far more identity, unique flavours and iconic abilities than the versions we've seen carrying the same names in MMOs before.

    If you're having trouble immersing yourself and identifying with your character beyond your group role then from your post that looks like a personal problem, just for you.

    • 34 posts
    July 11, 2019 8:55 PM PDT

    Ezrael said: 

    The pantheon classes have far more identity, unique flavours and iconic abilities than the versions we've seen carrying the same names in MMOs before.

    If you're having trouble immersing yourself and identifying with your character beyond your group role then from your post that looks like a personal problem, just for you.

    I did mention in the post you quote, that the classes might play very well, despite the very classic feel I got from the small sample abilities from the website or streams.
    I don't understand your negative tone, and I don't see that as a problem, but divergent taste.


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 11, 2019 9:17 PM PDT
    • 110 posts
    July 12, 2019 2:44 PM PDT

    Khraag said:

    ...the classes might play very well, despite the very classic feel I got from the small sample abilities from the website or streams...and I don't see that as a problem, but divergent taste.

     

    If you haven't been on the forums long (which I'm guessing from your post count) you probably don't know that many Pantheon fans here tend to believe that modern MMOs have suffered from a process of 'class diffusion', where classes have gradually acquired a wider spectrum of the abilities of other classes. Pantheon Devs have explicitly stated that well-defined class roles is a high priority for them, for  the above reason as well as for encouraging interdependence between players.

    Thus, talk about hybrid classes or the ability to 'respec' a class to a different role will likely run into some resistance on these forums. Also, the 'Classic Feel' that you refer to a couple of times (apparently as a drawback for you) is absolutely part of the appeal of Pantheon to many of us, and a clearly stated goal of the Devs from the beginning.

    If you haven't seen it yet, you might browse around the Pantheon Wiki. It may not have much more info about classes than this site, but I much prefer it's presentation of spells and abilities for each class rather than the 'Classes' page on this site.

    Pantheon Wiki

     

    I may be misunderstanding you, but is it possible that the use of traditional names for most of the classes might be contributing to your perception that they seem to be the 'same old same old'? I find a large and appealing divergence between the different offerings in each of the classes. I admit that the traditional classes we have do adhere strongly to the basic identity we have come to attach to them. However, I've read many posts where people assume that a Pantheon [insert class name] will be like all the others they have played, only to change their outlook when they start to learn functional details of the spells and abilities of said class.


    This post was edited by Jothany at July 12, 2019 2:45 PM PDT
    • 34 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:17 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    If you haven't been on the forums long (which I'm guessing from your post count) you probably don't know that many Pantheon fans here tend to believe that modern MMOs have suffered from a process of 'class diffusion', where classes have gradually acquired a wider spectrum of the abilities of other classes. Pantheon Devs have explicitly stated that well-defined class roles is a high priority for them, for  the above reason as well as for encouraging interdependence between players.

    Thus, talk about hybrid classes or the ability to 'respec' a class to a different role will likely run into some resistance on these forums. Also, the 'Classic Feel' that you refer to a couple of times (apparently as a drawback for you) is absolutely part of the appeal of Pantheon to many of us, and a clearly stated goal of the Devs from the beginning.

    If you haven't seen it yet, you might browse around the Pantheon Wiki. It may not have much more info about classes than this site, but I much prefer it's presentation of spells and abilities for each class rather than the 'Classes' page on this site.

    Pantheon Wiki

     

    I may be misunderstanding you, but is it possible that the use of traditional names for most of the classes might be contributing to your perception that they seem to be the 'same old same old'? I find a large and appealing divergence between the different offerings in each of the classes. I admit that the traditional classes we have do adhere strongly to the basic identity we have come to attach to them. However, I've read many posts where people assume that a Pantheon [insert class name] will be like all the others they have played, only to change their outlook when they start to learn functional details of the spells and abilities of said class.



    I've been peaking in and out of the forum from time to time. I am very optimistic about the game overall and I don't want ppl to feel like I try to drag the game down, I am very enthusiastic about it.
    You are probably right saying that my current perception is mainly from the class names (thanks for the wiki link, I'll read later :p) and I am more than fine saying I may have a wrong perpection I am very eager to see that's up actually.

    When I mentioned Hybrid in the topic is not Hybrid role, but more like a full DPS class with Hybrid damage types because half it's DPS is Physical and Half is magical.

    The classic playstyle of old MMOs is really what I am looking for. I loved the social aspect, finding ppl to group with, going in a dungeon etc. I loved it in earlier MMos I played. So I am on board with defined role 100%.

    After thinking a little (no too hard, 'cause hurts me head!), it simply is that I want to play DPS but I am actually not excited about ANY of the current DPS classes.
    And that's why I was like, ... I wish we had at least one DPS that would be a bit more original (Just like the Direlord seem to be original). And I would love the necromancer, but I am not counting on that.

    I also never understand why designers of EQ1, Vanguard or Pantheon are allergic to strength based classes for melee DPS.
    How is it possible that one of the most obvious advantage (strength) in medieval combat beside equipment and training is regarded as a stat for someone to get punched in the face but hits like a noodle. That has always baffled me, ...

    "I am a big Warrior with a big Weapon and I can cleave you in 2 with a swing, but I actually only shave the hairs of your arms when I do..."

    That perception is partially from my DAoC, MOBA and Roleplay background where melee DPS would (or could) actually be strong combattant (Berserker, Mercenaries, Blademasters, Savages) and not necessarily classes that you would primarily see as nimble and dextrous (rogue, monk, etc.)

    In the end I wish there was some kind of DPS like Berserker or something I would see that is not super common (like I mentioned a melee DPS mixing 50/50 magic and physical damage like bladesinger or something)
    So until something like that happens I try to find compromise with the announced classes - Necromancer sounds sexy as a DPS class, not a solo one-.


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 12, 2019 6:45 PM PDT
    • 34 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:41 PM PDT

    Can we delete a doublepost?


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 12, 2019 6:43 PM PDT
    • 79 posts
    July 22, 2019 8:05 PM PDT

    Dire Lord looks to do decent DPS for a tank.

    It deals physical damage mainly but does have magical DoTs.

     

    Edge of Midnight deals very reasonable damage when against a caster, in the Dire lord streams for example in Black Rose Keep against normal casters I saw Leksur hitting 1000-1300 with this attack that deals damage based upon an enemy's mana pool and against the named caster it hit for 1823 -1960.

    Bearing in mind the Wizard at the same level was doing 476 with normal nukes.

    Also, although a physical attack - Abyssal Strike ignores all armour.