I wanted to open a discussion about Guilds and possible Perks or Benefits that may or may not be associated with being part of one- Is this something that we should consider? What is considered a benefit/perk? What kind of benefits/Perks should be considered? What kind of benefit/perk system should be implemented, if at all? Would a guild have achievments to obtain that give it benefits? Would kind of benefits should those achievments give?
I believe that adding achievments and benefits to a guild would give players more of a sense of pride in their Guild/Community, and that it would create more of a longstanding loyalty to their Guild. Now- I don't mean the normal types of benefits- But something outside of the box. Obviously there are downsides, always are when dealing with a system that involves people, but there are a lot of really really neat ideas that can stem from this.
A Few Ideas-
- A guild member finds a Guild Quest line through the Perception system that eventually leads to a raid which saves a traveling Vendor who will now show up every so often to the guild hall to sell unique items of sorts.
- Through exploration of the world, General Adventuring, and Raids- Guild Members find Fragments of Book Pages that can be turned in to the Guild NPC Vendors, the vendor would collect X Pieces and the Recipe would then be available to the Guild Members of that Craft Profession once all pieces were collected by guild Members.
- Guild Reputation with various Factions could give Members benefits or access to more quests and vendors of that Faction. Reputation would be gained through Turning in supplies to an NPC or accomplishing Quests for that Faction and so on.. The more members of the party that are part of the guild, the higher Reputation gains would be for the Guild. This may also allow player characters who are normally KoS to particular factions the ability to move through or gain quests from that faction for a short period of time without immediately being attacked.
- Guild Group Quests could be given by Guild Hall NPCs that might yield Gold/Plat or Crafting Supplies deposited into the guild bank, or a noteworthy Item to be rolled on by the Guild Group.
- After accomplishing some milestone or Achievment, the Guild Hall may get visited by a Bard, or a Soothsayer/Seer/Shaman etc.. The Bard may ask for a Specific Drink or something to repair his musical instrument, then he would sing a song full of clues, or the Soothsayer/Seer/Shaman would ask for random items for a Divination that would lead the Guild to find a hidden treasure, or a random boss encounter somewhere.
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So please feel free to share any ideas or thoughts you have on this sort of subject, whether it be for or against this sort of thing, why or why not!
I think it would be cool if there was something like a 5% experience boost for being in a guild. Talk about an easy way to get people to join a guild and encourage them to hang out with other people and make groups. You could always just balance your experience curve around people being guilded.
Being in a guild is in and of itself a gameplay advantage. I don't think we need to further incentivize it by locking gameplay or mechanics behind being a member of one. I am fine with things like guild-related cosmetics that are unique to yours, or small advantages like a guild bank or guild hall you can use to gather and organize from.
If you incentivize things like building groups of only your own guild members in order to get a better xp bonus or better rewards from content, what you're really incentivizing is insularity, not community. A lot of guilds recruit by playing with people outside their own walls and getting to know them. If you actively make playing with people outside your guild a detriment, you will reduce the community that can build.
bigdogchris said:I think it would be cool if there was something like a 5% experience boost for being in a guild. Talk about an easy way to get people to join a guild and encourage them to hang out with other people and make groups. You could always just balance your experience curve around people being guilded.
Oh God no
I can see where you are coming from Chanus- But that is why I say outside the box ideas. Things that promote Guild Activities outside of just grinding for exp or helping a Guild Member do a quest and gathering on a Friday night to do a raid for gear.. Being able to do something that benefits the whole Guild and having fun doing it. The normal activity of grouping outside the walls of the Guild or getting to know others will still occur.. It always has and always will- But it doesn't mean that a group has to be ALL Guild Members.. Others can join the adventure- And these sorts of things can be any level.
Something else to note is the community as a whole still has to build knowledge and unravel clues and share things.. It has to. This could and probably would lead to Guilds sharing info about how they did it, or Guilds could team up to do these things as well..
This is the sort of thing I am talking about over doing the normal things.. I know that the Reputation Gain idea caters to more Guild grouping, but outside of that- There are a lot of possibilities!
HemlockReaper said:I Think this would be a good thing to reward guild members who show dedication to their guild. There could even be penalties for not being in a guild, or penalties to Xp, Gold ect for not meeting raid quotas.
Oof! Punishment for not? I think that may be a bit much of a stretch, but positive reinforcement to actually doing Guild Activities would go a long way.
Just curious- What do you think about Casual Guilds and how that would affect them??
ipDRe said:bigdogchris said:I think it would be cool if there was something like a 5% experience boost for being in a guild. Talk about an easy way to get people to join a guild and encourage them to hang out with other people and make groups. You could always just balance your experience curve around people being guilded.
Oh God no
lol yeah, like no. Rather have cash shops with xp potions.
Chanus said:Being in a guild is in and of itself a gameplay advantage. I don't think we need to further incentivize it by locking gameplay or mechanics behind being a member of one. I am fine with things like guild-related cosmetics that are unique to yours, or small advantages like a guild bank or guild hall you can use to gather and organize from.
Agreed.
So Pantheon is touted as a 'group focused' game, but yet does not mandate that you always be in a group.
bigdogchris said:I think it would be cool if there was something like a 5% experience boost for being in a guild. Talk about an easy way to get people to join a guild and encourage them to hang out with other people and make groups. You could always just balance your experience curve around people being guilded.
Nothing says I can't make a guild of 1 or make a public guild that lets anyone and everyone in spoecifically to get that 5% bonus. Just because you're not in a group (or guild) does not equate to you being anti-social. Plenty of people will happily adventure day in and day out with everyone and anyone yet not join a guild. And you think they should be punished for that?
HemlockReaper said:I Think this would be a good thing to reward guild members who show dedication to their guild. There could even be penalties for not being in a guild, or penalties to Xp, Gold ect for not meeting raid quotas.
You could accomplish that within the rules of your own guild if you want such a guild. No need to impose your draconian punishments onto the entire server population. I've seen plenty of hardcore guilds have very tough participation rules where even the slightest infraction would result in being kicked out of the guild and I'll bet we'll see at least one example of that type on each server in Pantheon.
Astartes31 said:HemlockReaper said:I Think this would be a good thing to reward guild members who show dedication to their guild. There could even be penalties for not being in a guild, or penalties to Xp, Gold ect for not meeting raid quotas.
Oof! Punishment for not? I think that may be a bit much of a stretch, but positive reinforcement to actually doing Guild Activities would go a long way.
Just curious- What do you think about Casual Guilds and how that would affect them??
I Don't think casual guilds are any different that “hardcore” guilds, they both reap what they sow.
I liked how EQ2 used to do guilds with leveling them up and stuff with status writs. It shows commintment and also helps level up the guild. It also makes the guild treat members well as if a player leaves they leave with their status and drop the guild down. I woun;t mind seeing that return.
The problem with a bonus is : As long as it exists, It just means you have a malus when not in a guild, you're only havin 95.23% of the experience you "should" or "could" have. Passive bonuses only encourage stacking for the sole reason of having bonuses, and making experience bonuses contribute to the "fast to the cap" mentality by implying experience is more or less a chore.
I'm really not in any bonus for beeing in a guild except what it means : having a chat with guildies, faster group finding, an eye all over the world for special events and bosses.
I like QoL benfits like EQ2 guild perks when you get high level guild you got raid flags you can drop for people to teleport too and also designing the guild hall. I used to go off and find a secluded spot to build out my own lair.
The teleport flag was cool also in downtime, one can be used at a time and you might be camping some named mob somewhere and drop a flag then you get random guild members showing up just to hang out. builds team bonding.
It would seem that most folks frown upon an Experience Bonus or other Similar Monetary Bonuses.. And I agree with that. I also see that people seem to think that just being part of a Guild is benefit enough- And I can certainly see that point of view- But is that really it? No new ideas or takes, just the standard Guild experience is good enough?
I appreciate and support your intent here Astartes, but I think there's a very fine line between giving guilds something more to do than simply raid, and penalizing players for choosing (for whatever reason) not to be in a guild.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be things for guilds, but I think they need to be a bit more subtle than what you have listed at the top.
Here are some general things that I think are generally acceptable to most players, guilded or not.
1) Guild crests which can be worn/displayed on shields/cloaks/flags/etc.
2) Shared guild storage to help guild members more easily coordinate and trade with each other.
3) (Whenever housing as added to Pantheon) Guild-specific housing options in housing areas - however, these need to be involved enough to obtain that only real guilds comprised of multiple players can get them.
Beyond that, here are some things I would like to see personally, but that I think are borderline and would have to be very carefully balanced against what was available to everyone regardless of guild status:
1) Quest lines geared for guilds, where your guild is the entity that holds the quest and your members work on it asynchronously. Completing the quest might open a special raid or something (which you could then bring other, unguilded players along for). This would require NPC factions to recognize your guild as an entity, which means that guild would have factional standings, and probably is something that would best be done with a full diplomacy sphere.
2) Guild outpost construction, where outposts are large camps that a guild can create in certain places in overland zones, which provide services to players visiting them. Guilds creating the outpost get their standard displayed but are responsible for upkeep of the outpost. If they let that upkeep lapse, the outpost is dismantled, although another guild could set one up in the same place.
We should expect guilds to focus on a variety of playstyles and gameplay. There will be raiding guilds, roleplaying guilds, PvP guilds, crafting guilds, social guilds, community-event guilds, guilds made up of only specific races, questing guilds, exploration/perceptiong guilds, and every combination you can think of. And those will be just the focused and organized ones. There will be plenty more generic guilds that don't really have a specific focus but sort of just do whatever seems obvious.
Any perks, content, or bonus systems added for guilds need to include things that will benefit all of these different types of guilds - not just some of them.
Forgive me Nephele - But I am not quite sure where my suggestions are Penalizing Players for not joining a Guild?
There is no Penalizing- Just a Perk to being in a Guild- Giving a Guild something fun to do as team building.. If a player doesn't join a Guild or a large group to Raid, even though that content is available to them, is it considered penalizing them? I wouldn't think so- So why would adding some fun things for Guilds to do, and allow other players who are not in that Guild the ability to join in be penalizing anybody? The content is available to everyone if they choose to explore it.
The Three General Things you posted are what I call the "Standard Guild Experience"
And what you stated as your #1 for things you would like to see is pretty much what I am suggesting as well..
I am just throwing ideas out there in hopes that people may have some neat ideas to share- Not expecting them to be bomb proof ideas- Just encouraging imagination. But it seems that for the most part so far on this thread- People want the Standard Guild Experience.. Just like Iksar said after you- They are their own benefit/reward.. No extras for joining or being part of a guild.
Astartes31 said:Forgive me Nephele - But I am not quite sure where my suggestions are Penalizing Players for not joining a Guild?
Not beeing nephele, but as I explained earlier, giving a bonus to guilds is penalizing people who aren't in. Because it's named a bonus doesn't mean it's different from giving a malus to all guildless players.
MauvaisOeil said:Astartes31 said:Forgive me Nephele - But I am not quite sure where my suggestions are Penalizing Players for not joining a Guild?
Not beeing nephele, but as I explained earlier, giving a bonus to guilds is penalizing people who aren't in. Because it's named a bonus doesn't mean it's different from giving a malus to all guildless players.
It is also a *CHOICE* to join a Guild or not- It doesn't mean it penalizes players for not being part of a Guild. As I stated below that line, if a player CHOOSES to NOT join a Guild or a Group to Raid- Is that Penalizing the player for missing out on that Content? Call it something else aside from a Bonus/Perk/whatever.. Call it a Guild Quest, Guild Activities, Guild Events, Guild Storylines- There are a million things.. But honestly you guys are hard pressed to argue it is Penalizing anyone for choosing to do something else.
Perception is reality.
How many times in these games have you met people who feel they *have* to raid because "it's the only way to get better gear?"
Or people who feel like they *have* to craft because "it's the only way to avoid paying a lot of money"?
The same applies to guilds.
Coming from previous games, people will already feel compelled to join a guild in order to see raid content or to get "decent" groups. That's not the truth, but it's their perception, from years and years and years of games and communities reinforcing that behavior.
Now you're going to tell all those people that they must be in a guild to get access to some content. What's their perception going to be of that?
The problem isn't one of logic, but of emotion.
Astartes31 said:MauvaisOeil said:Astartes31 said:Forgive me Nephele - But I am not quite sure where my suggestions are Penalizing Players for not joining a Guild?
Not beeing nephele, but as I explained earlier, giving a bonus to guilds is penalizing people who aren't in. Because it's named a bonus doesn't mean it's different from giving a malus to all guildless players.
It is also a *CHOICE* to join a Guild or not- It doesn't mean it penalizes players for not being part of a Guild. As I stated below that line, if a player CHOOSES to NOT join a Guild or a Group to Raid- Is that Penalizing the player for missing out on that Content? Call it something else aside from a Bonus/Perk/whatever.. Call it a Guild Quest, Guild Activities, Guild Events, Guild Storylines- There are a million things.. But honestly you guys are hard pressed to argue it is Penalizing anyone for choosing to do something else.
I'm sorry but that's nonsense. You're comparing a flat and passive bonus obtained throught the simple fact of beeing guilded, to content where you need a lot of people that naturally favors guilds but isn't a hardblock. I knew plenty of raids that were either multiple guilds teaming, or made from scratch with a lot of "non guilded people" back then. A guild wasn't necessary to access raid, it was just easier to manage people and rosters in a guild but it wasn't a necessity.
Aich said:I like QoL benfits like EQ2 guild perks when you get high level guild you got raid flags you can drop for people to teleport to
I wouldn't classify that as QoL. I would classify it as game breaking, but to each their own.
To me, QoL means you are making something easier without changing gameplay. For example, based on a recent question, shared bank between account is an example of quality of life improvement. Another example may be the ability to create custom U if you couldn't before.
In somewhat of an echo here, but to re-state the position; I feel that being in a guild is "benefit" or "perk" enough. I think any sort of "bonus" or added content tied to guild membership is isolating at best...and further exascerbates a chasm that will already exist between casual and hardcore raiders. The convenience aspects (guild bank, "crafting request" board, "in need of mats" lists etc.) as said above, would need to be very carefully crafted as to not isolate those who choose their un-guilded path, but I think are debateable. An outright bonus I feel is a slippery slope.
On the flip side, I am 1000000% on board for being able to guild crest yourself out. Like have a reagent vendor that sells "Guild colours" dyes for cheap so that everything that is dyeable could have your guld crest either watermarked or painted on it. I'm down on that, as it adds to the fellowship, without providing a decided "advantage".
-Ayuden