Forums » General Guild Discussion

Limits on Guild size

    • 151 posts
    July 3, 2019 6:23 AM PDT

    Tried to search but didnt find this information.

    Besides, my question is-are there plans to limit guild size based on Social Science/Anthropology research by using Dunbar’s number for optimal social interpersonal relationships (Which is rounded off to 150)?

    • 151 posts
    July 3, 2019 4:04 PM PDT

    I know some will advocate for larger guild sizes, but frankly if guilds get too big I, personally, feel like the community becomes too big to relate to in any meaningful way. 

    And, honestly, I would prefer something more intimate than 150 even. 

     

    Thoughts? Opinions?


    This post was edited by Grayel at July 3, 2019 4:05 PM PDT
    • 106 posts
    July 4, 2019 1:20 AM PDT

    Will alts each count or would it be a 150 max accounts? If the avg member took up three slots you start eating away at the optimal social interpersonal relationships.

    I find the idea of limiting guilds for that reason interesting.

    • 137 posts
    July 4, 2019 2:09 AM PDT

    I think that 150 is a fair amount for a guild limit. Personally, I have always preferred smaller guilds because it fosters better player relationships. I think the biggest guild I was ever in had maybe 75 people online at one time and that was rare it was usually like 30-40 people. From an officer perspective, smaller guilds are a lot easier to manage as well. It can be a pain when you have to go through a guild that has 300+ members and kick all the people who have been inactive for a long period of time, while also trying to remember who everyone's alt is and if someone is has been called into active duty.  

    I would like to see the eventual addition of player communities though. While not a guild per se it would give players who were interested in the same things a place to discuss these things. For example, a community that was crafting focused in nature would be awesome to see as a way to facilitate trade agreements. Streamers could also create their own community so people who are not apart of there and can't join due to limitations don't feel left out. There could also be communities dedicated to dungeon grinding, questing, and pugging raids. While these last 3 are functions of a guild, sometimes players are in guilds with people who aren't in their level bracket, or there are only one or two others online and neither of them is available at the moment. Pantheon is all about player community and as such, it shouldn't just be fostered within guilds.

    • 589 posts
    July 4, 2019 3:14 AM PDT

    I too prefer not overly large guilds, but why would it bother you if other guilds organize differently and have hundreds of members?

    • 151 posts
    July 4, 2019 3:47 PM PDT

    It would not bother me at all if guilds had hundreds of members. 

    Just trying to get a feel for how VR is conceiving guilds, and resultantly, how they will function in game. 

    As @Baldur states, larger guilds require more effort by guild officers and that usually also results in more rules  

    So, guild size can have a real impact on how connected you may feel and how the guild chooses to manage things.

    As far as alts go @starblight, that is also impacted by how a game sets Up guild sizes.  Does your account (regardless of how many toons) count as just 1 or does every toon count?

    Given that there’s a Progeny system in Pantheo, this could result in being identified by account or ‘family name’.  Or maybe Progeny will be a toon by toon choice.

    Just curious how all this may take shape.  

     

    • 1433 posts
    July 6, 2019 7:06 PM PDT

    I don't know that a limit or restriction would really accomplish anything, especially if the game allows people to create custom chat channels outside of guilds.  I've seen people use shared chat channels (or even discord) to bypass guild size restrictions in so many games now that it's almost farcical.  You might as well not have the restrictions.

    There's an awful lot of Pantheon's guild implementation that we simply don't know yet.

    My preference would be that rather than the game trying to tell us how big or small a guild should be or how it should work, that they simply provide us with tools to make the guilds that are right for us.  Whether that's 5 members or 300 members - whether that's a traditional leader/officer structure or a more open friends/family structure where everyone can recruit.  VR's goal should be to give us a robust and powerful set of tools to organize our communities.  They should leave it up to us how we go about using them.

    • 151 posts
    July 7, 2019 6:49 PM PDT

    Good points Nephele.  The guild organization certainly can (and my current one does) go beyond any single game. 

    Perhaps thinking of community and guild as it relates to a single game just doesn’t matter anymore. 

    • 1712 posts
    July 8, 2019 2:11 PM PDT

    There is also the issue of designed raid sizes and their relationship to guild size.  If VR were to cap raid sizes at 24 (which is something mentioned quite a few times) why would necessarily need, or want, a guild of 100 or more?  Could you imagine the disappointment to hear the guild is going on a raid but you being told you can't go because they already have 24?  Sure, you might try going around looking for another target, but if you do not have mulitple raid leaders or if there are no other targets available would you not be quite upset?

    In EQ1 with raids capped at 72, you needed more than 72 members just to take into account that not everyone would be available at any given time, but rarely did I see raid guilds exceed 100. In EVE Online where a fleet capped at 256 some corporations would hit that cap with alliances easilly exceeding that 10x over.

    But that is for guilds with an eye for raiding.  A guild not concerned at all with raid content and more concerned with community really should not be told 'no, you can't have more than X people'.  Raid guilds will naturally limit, I think.  Let people guild up whomever they want.

    • 766 posts
    July 30, 2019 9:08 PM PDT

    The mega guild scene should not be here.. Id offer a recommendation that we keep it much lower then 250 online accounts at once.

    • 766 posts
    July 30, 2019 9:13 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Could you imagine the disappointment to hear the guild is going on a raid but you being told you can't go because they already have 24?  Sure, you might try going around looking for another target, but if you do not have mulitple raid leaders or if there are no other targets available would you not be quite upset?

    Sorry i just read your comments and yes your completely correct my friend. Rift carried a disappointment pretty much from the start of it all. You had to be raid approved meaning top gear, full dps spam before being allowed into the raids. You can join the guild but good luck ever getting any raid loot.

    That my friend was the first and last time i ever joined a crap guild like that.

    A successful guild that raids works together, and offers us help parses togther to allow for you to raid with everyone else. You should not be told to sit out time and time out. Also splitting up multi raids do happen more now then way way back in the day so its much easier to get into a good solid raid now.

    But still it happened to me before, and i basically said screw it, i am not sitting here begging. I joined the guild a few weeks prior, was up to lvl, geared out by the normal world but still was not allowed to raid because they completed 50% of the farming raids. Id never get a piece of gear to better my raid readness ever.

     

    Not fair is it? Yet your a top raider, with 1-10 in the guild size of 500 funny how it hits you hard.

    • 1712 posts
    August 9, 2019 8:40 AM PDT

    Grayel said:

    I know some will advocate for larger guild sizes, but frankly if guilds get too big I, personally, feel like the community becomes too big to relate to in any meaningful way. 

    And, honestly, I would prefer something more intimate than 150 even. 

     

    Thoughts? Opinions?

    So you want to be in a smaller guild. Great.  Join a small guild or form one of your own and limit its size.  But do not demand that everyone else must also be in a small guild.  Some people do like larger guilds.  Each to their own.

    • 702 posts
    August 21, 2019 10:23 AM PDT

    Arbitrarily determining that guilds can only be smaller than X is pretty ridiculous.

    What possible rationale would there ever be for such a demand.

    A guild is an orgamic thing and in a sandbox MMO, it can be any size it wants to be. Maybe someone can become king of a server?

    • 167 posts
    September 17, 2019 8:42 AM PDT

    Im not sure why an arbitrary limit should be imposed at all. I dont see any real justification for it in the OP. Just a reference to some quasi socio interaction limit, that is probably based on someones term paper.


    This post was edited by arazons at September 17, 2019 8:45 AM PDT