Well, to make a long story short. I have been a healer main for 20 years give or take so I guess I would have to go with the option of 'Heal a bad tank".
I took up healing very early on because I learned if you want something done right you need to do it yourself. I got tired experiencing other healers mismanaging their mana pools, defensive cooldowns, threat meters, etc... I remember playing WoW back in MoP and out healing members of the same class who were 20-30 item levels higher than me in content that was considered to be current at the time. X_X this is why I heal.
I find that healing has the highest skill cap of all the roles as no two fights are ever the same. Healing has a higher requirement of planning, prediction, and class understanding that most of the other roles don't have to worry about. For example, during an encounter, everyone has to understand the different phases and how to act accordingly. The healer in this situation has to know that, but they also have to take in: the tanks positioning, the DPS positioning, their own positioning, the tank's major defensive cooldowns, the DPS major defensive cooldowns, their own major cooldowns, who is at risk of pulling threat off the tank, who is at risk of standing in something, who are the adds on and are they getting CCed, will I get aggro if I heal, which dps is doing the most or is capable of doing the most damage in the event that I run oom and have to health juggle, what heal do I need to use and how do I stagger mp loss... I know that there are other considerations and some can also encounter dependant, but you can get an idea of the mental process healers go through.
Now I'm sure someone is going to argue healing is not all that complicated. I will say that over time games have standardized healing to the point where downranking is no longer a thing in most games, as such in most situations there is a clear answer as to what you want to use. This has made healing more simplified and has made it more accessible to people who are new to the role, but it has removed aspects of strategic gameplay and player autonomy/ decision making. However, I would still say that the really good healers are the ones who are constantly running through the above situations in their mind and act accordingly. They are the ones that have a higher skill cap, are keeping people alive effectively, and are most likely sitting on top of the healing meters.
While I tend to main healers, I will also occasionally play DPS in high-end content or rarely play a tank in early to mid game content. I will say that no matter what role I chose to play in lower level content most of the wipes are due to someone lack of general skill. Either the tank is squishy or can't hold aggro, the healer is not healing or miss managing mana or the DPS have not allowed time for threat generation and have instantly pulled off the tank. Now, in higher level content I find that most wipes are not due to a general lack of skill. I have found that most of my wipes in higher level content are because there is a lack of effective communication. Either the tanks are not effectively communicating their tank swaps, interruption rotation has not been established, CC rotation has not been established, stacking positions have not been effectively communicated, or healers have not established cooldown rotations and are double stacking major cooldowns.
Mojorizen said: I'd rather heal a bad tank. Since most pulls are based off healer mana/readiness, the pace can be controlled somewhat. But at the heart of this question is what are you going to do to help the healer or tank improve. As a healer, knowing tank or other class mechanics can go a long to improving your group play. Helping others improve will ultimately help you.
... but if its a bad tank, what makes you think they are paying attention to your mana? Like maybe they are one of those tanks that is like "Let's GO! I got full health we can do this! While the rest of your team is barely clinging to life and your healer is out of mana, and you are all half on the group praying for mercy XD!
Edit: Also I have been in the position of trying to help a fellow healer improve. There were three of us within the guild who worked with this person for about a month, long story short there was no hope in this situation. That experience changed my mind that everyone can be helped or show improvement. We allowed this person to change their role to dps, but this was also a huge flop. There are some people out there who even with guidance just cannot be helped.
I think that anyone who is looking to improve will put the effort into improving themselves. In this day in age, there are class videos, external websites with detailed class guides, boss guides, there are sites that will help you find your best in slot gear. If someone straight up asked for help these external sites would be my first recommendation, my second recommendation would be getting into a group that has you acting as the primary role you are trying to get better at, but have a backup class that can step in should you die. The only way to improve at something is through personal experience.
Mojorizen said: but if its a bad tank, what makes you think they are paying attention to your mana? Edit: Also I have been in the position of trying to help a fellow healer improve. There were three of us within the guild who worked with this person for about a month, long story short there was no hope in this situation. That experience changed my mind that everyone can be helped or show improvement. We allowed this person to change their role to dps, but this was also a huge flop. There are some people out there who even with guidance just cannot be helped. I think that anyone who is looking to improve will put the effort into improving themselves. In this day in age, there are class videos, external websites with detailed class guides, boss guides, there are sites that will help you find your best in slot gear. If someone straight up asked for help these external sites would be my first recommendation, my second recommendation would be getting into a group that has you acting as the primary role you are trying to get better at, but have a backup class that can step in should you die. The only way to improve at something is through personal experience. I hear you....... tho, I've stopped pulls before, after guaging a tank's/group's ability until we got into a better rhythm. All you can do is try to help others improve and familiarize yourself with the most important aspects of all classes to be a better rounded player. You are very correct on the point of self improvement. If you put the effort and time in you will eventually see improvement. If you don't care, that will become apparent as well.
Yeah, I agree that as a healer you need knowledge of how other classes function. You should read my first reply to this topic, I think we are very like-minded when it comes to this. As for stopping pulls I've done this as well provided there was a warning. In the past, I've had tanks go pull without giving any warning and I've gated/ ran to the zone line real fast. When they were like WTH? I was like did you see my mana.. and when they were like "no", My response was " Neither did I, I thought that it might have fleed somewhere over this zone line." I remember a pull in The Over There, right outside the entrance to Skyfire Mountain. I and an enchanter were so oom because we had been through some really intense pulls. I think I was at like 30 or so % mana and the enchanter was about the same. We told the tank that we could probably handle 3 to 5 mobs with correct CC. He went out and pulled about 6-10 mobs. At that moment the enchanter and I must have shared a look because we got up at the same time and started walking to the zone line. The rest of the group decided to foolishly try to fight... they did not live. The bright side was I got to regen my mana.. the downside... I had to waste all of it on rezing the group.
Since I know little about healing and nothing about tanking I will say neither.
Call me when you need a horn for pulling, drum to inspire a flaccid tank, shawm to aid a struggling healer, lute to slow/charm/debuff a mob of mobs...happy to make a bad tank / bad healer / bad group look good, all while looking good.
Just don’t, for the Keeper’s sake, make me solo. That way lies madness.
That's interesting to see how simply player's preferences in role is the main denominator echoing in that answer.
I won't be different, as a tank player I prefer to adapt to a bad healer than be healing myself. The reason have been explained multiple time by others : giving the pace to safely adapt to the healer (even if baad) instead of trying to cope with an overrate pace or threat problems. As good as a healer is, if he gets smacked down he won't do miracles.
Of course there are sticky situations where a good healer will manage and save the day, but with a bad tank ? I don't think so.
I feel a like the players who have mained tanks don't mind having a bad healer because they are willing to adapt to the fact they realize they are bad and fight the content with a lot of safety measures to try to make it comfortable for the healer, much like a main healer is willing to play with a bad tank because it spices things up and let's them test their skills. And hopefully in the end they teach and accept criticism so both the party and indivuals learn from each other.
Kilsin said:Would You Rather - Heal a bad tank or tank with a bad healer? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters
Depends, I guess. What makes each bad? If the healer is bad because they keep themselves up and are lousy keeping everyone else up, I'd rather have that bad healer tanking. At least the self heals would keep aggro. If the tank is bad because they're overzealous with pulls, even phenomenal healers will be outmatched by stupidity. If the tank is bad because they're wearing cloth armor, they'll be a mana sponge. If the tank is bad because they can't keep aggro, your healer might be tanking anyway.
I think having a bad healer tank gets my vote.
If the group has either a bad healer or a bad tank, and I'm playing the healer, I would rather the tank be bad, otherwise I'm the bad one and I don't want to be the problem. If however, for some reason I'm playing the tank, I would rather the healer be the bad one, again I don't want the problem to be me.
A different perspective.... My main has always been a dps'er and I have to say we tend to get by with a good tank and a bad healer most of the time. A good tank tends to watch how much mana a healer has, will say to cc an add or kite it, knows when to go full blow defensive or offensive for a dps burn. He calls for a pad heal and tells the healer to meditate for some mana regen. Most good tanks have great spatial awareness watching everything. They will take charge of the fight. So tank with a bad healer.
I've been in both situations as a group member, and my opinion is that it isn't a straight forward answer. It varies depending on the rest of the group, the classes, the skill level and of course, what your trying to kill.
A good group can make up for deficiencies in a tank OR a healer, and in some situations, both. But ultimately, it depends on the the makeup of the group.
Which is what makes co-op games interesting. You sometimes work a little harder to make up for a member or 2 who may not be as good for whatever reason. You can choose to replace them, teach them, or just make do with them.
Whichever choice that the bad player is most teachable. If the player is willing to learn and either I or other party members have the knowledge to educate them with better play than this is a salvageable situation. If the bad player is unwilling to learn or work together to improve then sadly it is probably better to just break apart group and reform with folks who want to work together.
Heal a bad tank is my first thought, but it begs the question what makes a bad tank. In my mind the short comings on a melee class is more easily overcome than that of a support class that multiple players in a group depends on. Bad healers, bad Enchanters, Bad Debuffers... all can make a pick-up group disband quick. A bad tank... well he's squishy... and he can't hold aggro... annoying but not the end of a crawl if you have a good CC chanter and a healer that's spot on.
People are assuming here that the exact opposite is true in this false equivalency. For example, being the healer with a bad tank doesn't mean that the healer we would have is perfectly on point. Or, for that matter, having a bad healer doesn't mean the tank we would have is a rock star. Sometimes we are stuck with a bad tank and a bad healer which turns spicy quickly!