Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

In One Word - Questing...

    • 624 posts
    June 20, 2019 3:33 PM PDT

    Jazzed

    • 1714 posts
    June 20, 2019 3:33 PM PDT

    My favorite color is grey. 

    • 413 posts
    June 20, 2019 9:17 PM PDT

    Endless-Mid-Game

     

      That's totally one word.  But doesn't make any sense cause I was thinking of something else so...  Spontaneous


    This post was edited by Zevlin at June 20, 2019 9:31 PM PDT
    • 1584 posts
    June 21, 2019 10:32 AM PDT

    Adventurous and desire

    The EQ questlines were really fun and time consuming which made it a feel like huge accomplishments I don't want simply quests like kill 1p gnolls and return to me but having a repeatable quest like then gnolls fangs and turn them all in at the end of your adventure for a touch of exp and a boost to your faction were huge for me.  Not even going to talk about some of the harder quest like epics or things like that because they were simply mind blowing.

    • 313 posts
    June 21, 2019 7:38 PM PDT

    errand-boy busywork

     

    Quests can be awesome and add a lot of value to an MMO, but they can also detract from it if not implemented in a smart way.  Too many MMOs make their quests too efficient (in terms of xp/gold/loot), easy, and quick.  It can make the game seem like an on-rails adventure instead of an open adventure, and perhaps most importantly, it focuses the gameplay WAY too much on individual objectives.  I just got done playing the 48 hour stress test in the WoW classic beta, and even though I would say that the quest design in that game is extremely good overall or in comparison to other modern mmo's, the focus on individual objectives is still heavily impactful.   You'll group up with other players pretty frequently to minimize risk of dying and do quests more efficiently.   But usually after you do a quest or two, the group will split off to continue working on whatever they need individually.  But hey, at least unlike a lot of the competition, at least wow classic encourages you to group up at all for questing

    Here's a few positives I found about the design questing in WoW classic.  The quests aren't streamlined.  They'll send you all over the place.  They'll have you backtrack.  Also they will give you quests which are extremely hard to do at the level you can accept them.  Some of the quests have infuriatingly low drop rates, and (somewhat relately) a lot of the quests take a long time to complete.  Ultimately, I never got the felling that I was on a focus-tested, boardroom designed, pre-planned adventure like I do a lot of other modern MMO's.  

    • 3237 posts
    June 21, 2019 7:43 PM PDT

    Google

    It's not that I feel Google ... but if I had to choose one word that comes to mind as it relates to questing in MMO's, that would be it.  I prefer player-driven quests ... like forming up a group and adventuring somewhere exotic.  Wanting to go from Point A to Point B (no coordinates/instructions/waypoints/carrots/tasks/requests/orders) without dying is the kind of quest I enjoy.  In an ideal world ... quests wouldn't give XP, and there would be an emphasis on quality over quantity.

    I have played plenty of games that focused on heavy questing and it really takes away from the game feeling like a world.  Every NPC/PoI ends up being tied into some sort of questline.  Once you complete the associated quest those NPC's and PoI's become mostly irrelevant.  The little hut at the top of the mountain?  It has meaning as long as you're working on the quest that requires a book from the table inside.  The little den on the side of the mountain?  It has meaning as long as you have the quest to kill the bear inside.

    I just want a world filled with danger and mystery.  I want the hut at the top of the mountain to feel like there is someone living there rather than being an asset that was only put there to "fill the area."  I want to discover destinations rather than be directed to them.  I want that bear den to be an area that I check on from time to time (because I have a personal vested interest in doing so) rather than only having to go there once to help out Farmer Bob.

    Quests are enjoyable to me when they are the exception rather than the rule.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at June 21, 2019 8:22 PM PDT
    • 15 posts
    June 21, 2019 8:26 PM PDT

    Yaaassss!

    • 58 posts
    June 21, 2019 8:30 PM PDT

    Immersed

    • 15 posts
    June 22, 2019 12:38 PM PDT

    Questing that compliments game play is great. Having dungeon camps is social and fun as well. The idea of both existing as paths for advancement makes a game more interesting to me. Of course the super gamers will always be trying to identify "which is the best path" so it is important that both add something to the game. I did enjoy how WoW had quests that were group content for dungeons. It made people seek out groups to do those quests but the downside was the quests themselves gave you so much more experience than simply camping those zones that you only went to camp an item or get the experience. It made the social aspect of it very mercenary. 

    It would be useful to have quests that might include having to "camp" some areas of a dungeon in a way that all members finish at the same time or even so that people are compelled to join dungeon camps to complete the quests they want to do in those areas. 

    The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Perhaps you have to camp one dungeon to gain access to another one, not unlike pharming for key parts in Luclin (EQ) but where the experience gained/item drops or crafting drops actually merits being there as well. On the back end as populations move through content there could be solo access quests put in to help later players or alt players to continue to move as through as well without waiting endlessly for groups or help to do so. Although if the content is fun enough and not too grindy people will be willing to play more classes/characters so the population through those dungeons could extend longer.

    The thing about WoW that was really great was that once you capped a character it wasn't SO painful to level another that you could easily do so. That lead to people having many characters, trying different ones out and enjoying more of the game from that perspective. EQ while fun was extremely grindy at times and during certain expansions (kunark) had the ability to give your alts better gear which made even the grindy aspect of the game more fun because you could take a well geared "twink" through the same content and even thought it was still grindy it was more fun to dominate it than when you went through the last time. EQ REALLY had a great balanced loot system for the most part and scaled up really intelligently through so many expansions. The downside of EQ was even though it was called "Everquest" the non epic quests were rarely worth doing for experience (except some quests like the CB pads/belts) so most people just grinded thousands of mobs to level which could become a real turn-off for some people.  

    • 103 posts
    June 22, 2019 12:48 PM PDT
    Engaged
    • 216 posts
    June 22, 2019 12:59 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    Google

    It's not that I feel Google ... but if I had to choose one word that comes to mind as it relates to questing in MMO's, that would be it.  I prefer player-driven quests ... like forming up a group and adventuring somewhere exotic.  Wanting to go from Point A to Point B (no coordinates/instructions/waypoints/carrots/tasks/requests/orders) without dying is the kind of quest I enjoy.  In an ideal world ... quests wouldn't give XP, and there would be an emphasis on quality over quantity.

    I have played plenty of games that focused on heavy questing and it really takes away from the game feeling like a world.  Every NPC/PoI ends up being tied into some sort of questline.  Once you complete the associated quest those NPC's and PoI's become mostly irrelevant.  The little hut at the top of the mountain?  It has meaning as long as you're working on the quest that requires a book from the table inside.  The little den on the side of the mountain?  It has meaning as long as you have the quest to kill the bear inside.

    I just want a world filled with danger and mystery.  I want the hut at the top of the mountain to feel like there is someone living there rather than being an asset that was only put there to "fill the area."  I want to discover destinations rather than be directed to them.  I want that bear den to be an area that I check on from time to time (because I have a personal vested interest in doing so) rather than only having to go there once to help out Farmer Bob.

    Quests are enjoyable to me when they are the exception rather than the rule.

     

    I agree with this so much.

    • 8 posts
    June 22, 2019 4:45 PM PDT

    Deferred gratification

     

    sorry two words...

    • 1399 posts
    June 22, 2019 5:27 PM PDT

    Lol, I love how some people less than grasp onto this "in one word" concept.

    • 238 posts
    June 23, 2019 12:53 AM PDT

    Sorry, I can't find just one word to describe questing as there are so many types of quests.

    1. Long quest chains and epic quest lines are enriching and engaging.

    2. Quests that involve killing a specifically named enemy or mob can feel lore driven/impactful/purposeful. 

    3. Quests that involve killing X amount or collecting X amount are mind numbing when overused to the point that I would much rather just dungeon grind and ignore them completely. 

    4. Faction turn ins are natural. Would much rather kill enemies without being instructed to do so, potentially receive items required by factions, and then hand these items to an NPC and potentially receive something useful.

    5. Daily quest... fit in with #3 they are mind-numbing/repetitive, and unlike faction turn-ins they feel more time-gated and less player controlled.

    6. Finally, the dreaded escort quest. Depending on NPC design and zone design these can feel tolerable, or "Please. God. Kill. Me. NOW!"  Classic WoW had Two of these things in Tanaris which I vividly remember and not for good reasons. One of which involved escorting a robot chicken from one end of the zone to the other and the other involved escorting a turtle from one end of the zone to the other. I hated both, but the turtle was the worst because if you didn't stay on top of him he would reset back to his starting location. Then you toss in the fact that Tanaris was a PvP zone and these two quests became that much more of a pain to complete.  

    Personally, I think that quest are great if they are used sparingly and in a way that accents and expands aspects of the lore. However, since there are so many ways to explain and expand on lore they shouldn't be the only tool implemented for this purpose. They also shouldn't be designed in the way that most modern MMOs do them. Quests in modern MMOs are used as a way to hold players hand through a guided and facilitated theme park experience. There is little to no reward for going out on your own and exploring. In my personal opinion, I feel like EQ had a better questing experience. It had quests that instructed players on what they needed to kill, but quest givers were not flagged with special markers and players had to explore to find them. Players also had the option of going out on their own and killing mobs, which could drop lore items that specific NPCs needed. These lore items would then raise the questions "What is this item for?", "Do I need this item?", and "Who do I give this item to?". These questions facilitated communication within the player base, and this type of item design promoted player curiosity and exploration. 

     

    • 107 posts
    June 23, 2019 4:17 PM PDT
    Busy. (As in: always having something to do or work towards regardless of whatever else may or may not be going on in game.)
    • 1479 posts
    June 23, 2019 4:33 PM PDT

    Lore ?

    • 432 posts
    June 24, 2019 9:42 AM PDT

    Belonging

    Quests make me feel that the NPC care for me and I care for the NPC . They give sense and purpose to what would otherwise be blind tumbling in a chaotic indifferent universe . They provide intellectual and cultural structures which make me feel that I belong . Quests are the alpha and omega of immersion .

    Quests are also the ultimate target for AI dvelopment where one could dream about adaptative intelligence with NPCs giving quests that change in time and are always adapted to changing environment and circumstances . I dream of a game where a farmer whose daughter I saved and meet again 1 month later taps me on the shoulder and says "Nice to see you again Tom . Let me offer you a mug of ale in yonder Inn and tell you how my daughter is doing ." Finally quests represent socialization with virtual creatures that harmoniously supplements socialization with real creatures (players) .

    • 363 posts
    June 24, 2019 2:51 PM PDT

    Depends on the types of quests in Pantheon. More like the "tasks" of newer MMOs? Boring. More like the quests that took you a considerable amount of time to accomplish in EQ1? Intrigued.

    • 125 posts
    June 24, 2019 3:48 PM PDT
    Immersed

    (When they’re well written, I read every word- delivery method doesn’t even matter at that point. I did all of the newbie quests of classic wow, so even that chain quest style is as immersive as camping stuff and running around for weeks at a time for your epic. Like when one of the wizards of Solusek Ro gets dumped by his old lover because he no longer has power and that’s all she loved him for, harsh- totally have a friend who feels for that dude.)
    • 313 posts
    June 25, 2019 5:33 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Lol, I love how some people less than grasp onto this "in one word" concept.

     

    I think it's more an issue of people choosing to ignore it.  

    • 200 posts
    June 25, 2019 7:42 AM PDT
    I love quests when they provide background stories about the world, its inhabitants, beliefs and convictions, daily life etc. When quests manage to do that it gives me a great sense of immersion.

    ‘Kill eight boars’ has never managed to do that tho. I’d love it if those don’t make it in :D.
    • 36 posts
    June 25, 2019 7:46 AM PDT
    Quests are vital to the enjoyment of an RPG, including MMORPGs. We don't need a path of breadcrumb trails leading you to max level, but there should always be some quest to give you a direction.

    When you play a pen & paper D&D game, which were really the predecessors for these, you would never get together with your friends and spend 3 hours just repeatedly killing mobs.

    I'm even fine with a quest that takes a long time (kill 100 wolves till you get a pristine pelt) since leveling will be slower. As long as a have a quest to do.

    Nothing kills the fun faster for me than having nothing in my quest log and just bring forced to pick a group of mobs to kill endlessly to grind to the next level.
    • 696 posts
    June 25, 2019 9:01 AM PDT

    Depends on the game...if it is EQ then Epic...if it is WoW then Chore

    • 200 posts
    June 30, 2019 3:07 PM PDT

    Immersive!

     

    With "immersive" i mean quests which fit into the regoin of the questgiver. In a desert region the biggest problem will be having enought water. So the player should collect water and build some springs. In a winter region you will have a problem keeping your body temperature high enough. So you will need wood for making fire, food, defend your camp from wild animals etc. And the mobs should also fit into the regions. In a winter region the player should not see any crocodiles or big spiders. In a tropical region spiders and crocodiles are OK etc. Even if the game is a phantasy game such inconsistencies with the real world should not be there. And in phantasy games there are "magical creatures" like fairies, vampires, undead, dragons etc. Vampires in a desert region would be mehh. Because of no food and the sun would be very unpleasant for them. Vampires in a cursed dark forest woluld be OK.

     

    Greetings

    • 454 posts
    July 1, 2019 10:56 AM PDT

    Given my name, you can easily believe I love questing.  I do.  It helps make the world come alive, for me.  Helping out an NPC find something, collect something, build something etc. bring continuity to Terminus.  Otherwise you are just walking into a whole new world and killing everything you see.  If I wanted that I’d play a FPS game.