benty said:I spent a considerable amount of time searching for some MMO to play, having tried so many since I quit EQ about a year ago. Anyone else traversing the bowels of internet games looking for any decent mmo to play?
I've tried almost every new one that comes out, but there has been such a void of good MMOs for so long now. Although, I really enjoyed black desert until that went basically full pay to win. That game really had something as far as crafting/mechanics went.
I know we all want Pantheon to be really great, but hoping that Alpha comes soon, seems like the market has been just sitting on this hole in the MMO genre for some time. Games like Lost Ark coming to the United States will likely make a big impact also. To be honest, I've never heard of another game incrementally increasing Pre-Alpha stages, and considering we are on the 3rd version of that are we prone to going to Pre-Alpha 4 or 5? Sounds a little disasterous.
This will sound strange, given the differences in genre, but I've found myself playing Red Dead Redemption 2 Online to pass the time until I can play Pantheon. It's been "unusual". While, technically, an MMO, it's not really a traditional style MMO. There are some interesting mechanics that might even make for interesting inclusion into traditional MMOs like Pantheon.
One of the more "unusual" mechanics is that there aren't separate servers in the traditional sense. You don't log on and select a server to play on. You're put on one "randmly", however, they call them sessions. If you want to play with friends, you can join their session, or invite them to join your session. They have a sort of mini-guild thing called a Posse, and you can opt to join the session where your posse members are. That's an interesting mechanic vs the traditional server selection, because it allows them to add and remove groups of servers on the fly, for population control, without having alterations to the server selection process. I'm not saying that Pantheon should do this. Just that it was an interesting mechanic.
It gives me something to do in the meantime.
You'll likely try a few more MMOs before this one goes into production. I just hope people are still willing to leave the games they are invested in at that time and commit to PRotF for more than a month or two. A big concern of mine are games like WoW classic that will likely be at its height around this time next year with Black Wing Lair and going up to ZG, AQ and Nax. There are a lot of other decent looking new MMOs coming out in the next couple of years... if VR releases too late they may lose a lot of steam from current backers and if they release too soon, the game won't be complete. The line they have to walk is a thin one.
Darch said:You'll likely try a few more MMOs before this one goes into production. I just hope people are still willing to leave the games they are invested in at that time and commit to PRotF for more than a month or two. A big concern of mine are games like WoW classic that will likely be at its height around this time next year with Black Wing Lair and going up to ZG, AQ and Nax. There are a lot of other decent looking new MMOs coming out in the next couple of years... if VR releases too late they may lose a lot of steam from current backers and if they release too soon, the game won't be complete. The line they have to walk is a thin one.
Honestly while classic might be a great success on US server, blizzard basically shot themselves in the foot with EU server with their politic to release no localized servers which will discourage a big part of their playerbase to play and invest in a game where communication will be as blurry as it is on other games for now (GW2, ESO, FFXIV). It's really not what europeans were awaiting as a "classic" experience, since it's not the classic experience at all.
I don't see them changing backward even with 3000+ posts on the topic in a few days, so it might be a failure outside of UK players in EU (and russian, because they will have dedicated servers for some reason).
bryanleo9 said: Original wow was not challenging. The people waiting for pantheon want a challenging group centered game. I don't see wow classic as going after the majority of players waiting for pantheon to launch.
bryanleo9 said: Original wow was not challenging. The people waiting for pantheon want a challenging group centered game. I don't see wow classic as going after the majority of players waiting for pantheon to launch.
I agree that fundamentally MMOs have not been terribly challenging after mechanics have been worked out, but I am curious what kind of game people are asking for when they say they want Pantheon to be "challenging" and also if they expect the game to have more than a dozen people playing it a month in if they get what they want.
Chanus said:I agree that fundamentally MMOs have not been terribly challenging after mechanics have been worked out, but I am curious what kind of game people are asking for when they say they want Pantheon to be "challenging" and also if they expect the game to have more than a dozen people playing it a month in if they get what they want.
We want the game outlined in the game tenents, which by VR's own admission will not be for the many. The analysis is that although we represent a small minority of MMORPG gamers, there's more than enough of us to support the niche game that Pantheon hopefully will become.
It's like the music industry. When the CD was invented everybody thought vinyl records were doomed, and now almost everybody moves on to streaming services. Still, a couple of factories continue to produce cartridges and have as strong a business as ever, because a small percentage of music consumers continue to prefer vinyl. The analogy is that there may be very few vinyl enthusiasts in your neighborhood, but worldwide there's more than enough to keep the industry going.
I predict that you, on the other hand, will dislike Pantheon and soon move on because it "forces" you to do all sorts of "tedious" things you have spoken against in just about every thread you have posted in. You think a game must be "fun" and "entertaining" to catch on, but we want it to be "gratifying", if that makes sense. One preference is not better than the other, but we're here because we hope and trust that Pantheon will become something very different than what most MMORPGs have been.
You have made it clear that you believe that e.g. camping for many days waiting for that coveted pop is not challenging, it's just tedious. Well, I challenge you to sit through one, then.
Well i am ready to strangle all these games on the market...
Pubg omfg the hax in it.. sick
ROE omfg the hax in it.. sick
Atlas omfg did someone invent this.. sick
All owned by tencent, its driving me nuts guys, i just want a decent game to step into until pantheon testing. Like i said before Pantheon will be my last MMO, i am 49 this year.
find me something to do, and if it keeps up ill go back to EQ and play on live... not tlp its full of hax too.
In all honest, i have more testing hours in games then most have playing the game on release. So i like to game, have always been a gamer but lately i been really concidering of retiring from it all. These cartoonish type games are so not me... I am not into a fortnite type game either..
Jabir - while I agree with much that you say my view of what Pantheon should be is, inevitably, somewhat different so I will give my own take on it.
My hope is that Terminus will be a world where leveling is so slow that we will be encouraged to relax and explore. If getting to level-cap takes two days many people find it an unbearable waste of time to actually spend a day enjoying the world and exploring. After all that *wastes* a whole 50% of the time it takes to get to level-cap so you can be bored by the "endgame" content. If at typical playing speed and time it takes a year to get to level-cap - spending weeks enjoying the world barely slows you down - on a percentage basis.
My hope is that Terminus will be a world where leveling is so slow that the developers will have ample time to create new content well before most of us exhaust the old content even for a single character much less alts. So that only the most fanatical "no-life" speed levelers will run out of things to do and be reduced to repeating "endgame" content over and over and over.
My hope is that it will have many races and many classes and interesting crafting like Vanguard if not better so that there will be endless things to test out and enjoy without simply focusing on the fastest possible way to level-up.
My hope is that Terminus will cater to differing playstyles so that while grouping is encouraged, a player without time to group a particular day or simply feeling anti-social that day will still have many reasons to log-on. Frankly I expect to be somewhat disappointed on this one but I can always hope.
My hope is that the developers will find ways to slow progress greatly without being too tedious. But this is so subjective - what some consider unbearably boring others consider to be the heart of the "old school" experience. You mention days waiting for a named mob to spawn as a good thing. I consider it a very *bad* thing and expecting friends and guildmates to wait for telephone alerts in real life that a named has spawned and they should stop work or crawl off their significant other and log-in a worse than terrible thing.
I'm in the same boat, Crazzie. I turn 60 in October, and PRF is the game I want to play until I just can't play any longer. I've donated to several of the upcoming mmo's, but my interest has waned over time as the games turn in to something other than I had hoped they would be. Some are just to cartoonish, others have morphed into p2w and others just aren't gonna scratch that itch I have for an old school style mmo.
I dusted off ESO recently due to sheer boredom. I quickly recalled why I had left it when I did, and promptly put it away to gather dust once again. I guess I'll just continue being bored until I can finally begin to make my home in Terminus.
Grymmlocke said:I'm in the same boat, Crazzie. I turn 60 in October, and PRF is the game I want to play until I just can't play any longer. I've donated to several of the upcoming mmo's, but my interest has waned over time as the games turn in to something other than I had hoped they would be. Some are just to cartoonish, others have morphed into p2w and others just aren't gonna scratch that itch I have for an old school style mmo.
I dusted off ESO recently due to sheer boredom. I quickly recalled why I had left it when I did, and promptly put it away to gather dust once again. I guess I'll just continue being bored until I can finally begin to make my home in Terminus.
Yup i feel for the older gen that got into games like EQ back in the day. We really havent had too many good covers have we? Wow was dulled down, etc.. i know i played it in between a small break back then. But i feel for players like us that like to game, but get involved in it, not just play it but get truely involved in it. There is not many games that hold attention span past 1000 hrs if that. 1000hrs may seem a lot to some but it really isnt but a few months playing each night or every other night with friends. I can not do 24/7 like we used to do back when we hit college etc..
I really enjoyed EQ, i wont lie.. it was my first big grand scale MMO that when we entered the world we went OHHH AHHH this is cool as hell, then 24 hrs goes by... WOW i still want to play it.
Yes tell me another game since then from 99 on that you felt that OOHHHH AHHH, and ill go check it out.
If the military has taught me anything it is: HURRY UP and Wait. For example: VR releases a news letter or video showing updated progress and everyone including myself is excited. The community is always hungry for more but we will just have to hurry up and wait. Hopefully this makes sense :/....
There is a method to the madness and VR does a great job with the dissemination of infomation. The game can take as long as it needs to take for completion because quailty isn't rushed. Patience is a virtue.
ROCK ON VR.
If the military has taught me anything it is: HURRY UP and Wait. For example: VR releases a news letter or video showing updated progress and everyone including myself is excited. The community is always hungry for more but we will just have to hurry up and wait. Hopefully this makes sense :/....
There is a method to the madness and VR does a great job with the dissemination of infomation. The game can take as long as it needs to take for completion because quailty isn't rushed. Patience is a virtue.
ROCK ON VR.
I feel that what a lot of people aren't realizing is where the actual "challenge" from EQ "originally" came from; and they are hoping to reproduce something that is not possible in our day in age. I say it's not possible to reproduce the same challenges because a large majority of it came from player naitevy of how MMORPGs operate; That, combined with the insane RNG that required incessant grinding that would make most people /wrist if they were subjected to that combination again was the majority of the "challenge" in classic EQ. If you go back to classic EQ now (using the knowledge people have obtained, the game is quite trivial... just time consuming). With that said, if you consider overcoming a "challenge" simply beating the RNG god, then of course games with different loots systems will seem "less challenging". Withholding/making gear exclusive isn't a "challenge" to some people... some people consider NPC encounters the actual challenge, which doesn't require withholding loot to successfully implement. RNG should only be there to prolong gameplay (to an extent), not add a "sense" of accomplishment. When you have to wait until you're level 50 to go camp a level 30 NPC for the FBSS (preventing players of appropriate level from ever attempting it), that's just poor design, and I hope VR doesn't go for that same model even though it seems a lot of people are hoping for that.
To keep on the topic of the post, I hope they stay in Alpha as long as they need so that they can make a "challenging" game that doesn't rely on the combination of nearly impossible RNG and incessant grinding.
Aich said:This thread has no purpose. Vote to Close.
Says you, we have lots of good conversation going on here. And nobody has broken a single issue. Nothing wrong with saying it the way it is. The Devs i am sure say the same another day no alpha yet.. hehe
Be nice, or find the door.
Darch said:I feel that what a lot of people aren't realizing is where the actual "challenge" from EQ "originally" came from; and they are hoping to reproduce something that is not possible in our day in age. I say it's not possible to reproduce the same challenges because a large majority of it came from player naitevy of how MMORPGs operate; That, combined with the insane RNG that required incessant grinding that would make most people /wrist if they were subjected to that combination again was the majority of the "challenge" in classic EQ. If you go back to classic EQ now (using the knowledge people have obtained, the game is quite trivial... just time consuming). With that said, if you consider overcoming a "challenge" simply beating the RNG god, then of course games with different loots systems will seem "less challenging". Withholding/making gear exclusive isn't a "challenge" to some people... some people consider NPC encounters the actual challenge, which doesn't require withholding loot to successfully implement. RNG should only be there to prolong gameplay (to an extent), not add a "sense" of accomplishment. When you have to wait until you're level 50 to go camp a level 30 NPC for the FBSS (preventing players of appropriate level from ever attempting it), that's just poor design, and I hope VR doesn't go for that same model even though it seems a lot of people are hoping for that.
To keep on the topic of the post, I hope they stay in Alpha as long as they need so that they can make a "challenging" game that doesn't rely on the combination of nearly impossible RNG and incessant grinding.
I do agree with you on that statement about hoping to have the hardcore challenge, This is why the grouping thing works out well for many of us, progression can be hardcore too. I put 20 great years into EQ, the TLP was just that Bleh!!!! but i loved the classic so i tried it.
I completely agree about staying in Alpha for as long as it takes. Guys like me will break the content and report the problems. Others are great at finding exploits, and we need them too.
I am game just let me know when you want me to start testing, i have many backer games but this is my hope to make it really good. Not to put other games down, but i did have to back away from testing, because they failed to keep delivering and letting us testers know what was going on. It is what it is these days on Steam games etc...
I do agree with you on that statement about hoping to have the hardcore challenge, This is why the grouping thing works out well for many of us, progression can be hardcore too.
Gates of Discord (kod'taz) single group trials were fun and challenging when they first came out. I am hoping the single group gearing up process in Pantheon is similar to that challenge.
Crazzie said:Darch said:I feel that what a lot of people aren't realizing is where the actual "challenge" from EQ "originally" came from; and they are hoping to reproduce something that is not possible in our day in age. I say it's not possible to reproduce the same challenges because a large majority of it came from player naitevy of how MMORPGs operate; That, combined with the insane RNG that required incessant grinding that would make most people /wrist if they were subjected to that combination again was the majority of the "challenge" in classic EQ. If you go back to classic EQ now (using the knowledge people have obtained, the game is quite trivial... just time consuming). With that said, if you consider overcoming a "challenge" simply beating the RNG god, then of course games with different loots systems will seem "less challenging". Withholding/making gear exclusive isn't a "challenge" to some people... some people consider NPC encounters the actual challenge, which doesn't require withholding loot to successfully implement. RNG should only be there to prolong gameplay (to an extent), not add a "sense" of accomplishment. When you have to wait until you're level 50 to go camp a level 30 NPC for the FBSS (preventing players of appropriate level from ever attempting it), that's just poor design, and I hope VR doesn't go for that same model even though it seems a lot of people are hoping for that.
To keep on the topic of the post, I hope they stay in Alpha as long as they need so that they can make a "challenging" game that doesn't rely on the combination of nearly impossible RNG and incessant grinding.
I do agree with you on that statement about hoping to have the hardcore challenge, This is why the grouping thing works out well for many of us, progression can be hardcore too. I put 20 great years into EQ, the TLP was just that Bleh!!!! but i loved the classic so i tried it.
I completely agree about staying in Alpha for as long as it takes. Guys like me will break the content and report the problems. Others are great at finding exploits, and we need them too.
I am game just let me know when you want me to start testing, i have many backer games but this is my hope to make it really good. Not to put other games down, but i did have to back away from testing, because they failed to keep delivering and letting us testers know what was going on. It is what it is these days on Steam games etc...
Length of time in alpha doesn't generally equate to a well QA'd game. Quality over quantity. Unless people understand how to look for unintended issues and test all parameters, bad code gets through. General public gamers are not QA testers. They don't understand coding, game design, functionality that can be exploited. They just played some games. The best they can do is finding glaring, game-breaking bugs, create load on servers and expose problems with spawn rates and bottlenecks. And as important as those are, it's not the kind of thing that kills a game. Cheaters and exploiters that try and break things do it largely to be malicious and gain advantage. They snoop the netcode, try to develop hacking tools, and look for poor security coding. When they find something, don't count on them to reporting it. Rather they will use it for maximum personal reward, secretly, and save it for release.
A classic example will be a horrendous dupe bug that absolutely kills the economy upon release. It's happened before, it'll happen again. Those kind of bugs kill games. People get pissed, leave, and never come back.