Now let me be clear, I do NOT mean what do you want blatantly copied, but I mean more, what kind of interesting and/or unique things do you want to see. Things that really captured the EQ spirit, the exploration, the creativity, etc. Stuff that to you, made it different than other MMOs... stuff that you just really loved, sometimes for reasons you can't even really express. The kind of thing you want to see beyond stuff like death penalties, group centric play, etc. For places, try not to list zones but rather monuments, icons, little spots, etc that were in the game world and had interest or meaning to you.
My example, and honestly there are many more beyond this that make it impossible to choose, but here goes...
Quest: The testament of truth quest for paladins in Freeport. It was so grand sounding, and yet so basic. It was a challenge when you first got it, and usually you wound up dying at first, and in the end, all you got was the piece of paper to take up an inventory slot. It ended up with a great RP element and eventually was part of something grand and great, and made total sense. It even tied in to killing Sir Lucan which was neat. A really great and true quest at the early stages.
Place: The Chessboard. A fascinating reward for exploration and one of the MANY places I could have listed that seemed so neat when you found them, got to be known by name, and always made you wonder about a back story. Places like that were part of what made EQ special if you ask me.
Creature: Sergeant Slate. Again, a ton of choices here for me, but the danger of random high level enemies in certain low level places was so frustrating but so fun at the same time. Obviously he was not everyone's enemy, which made it more interesting. Boy, the satisfaction I got when I finally went back and shoved my sword through that guy...
None - I want many of the design approaches as often discussed in other threads. I want many of the class abilities and features (quite a few of which have been in later games under different names - things like feign death and evac for example). But I am happy if VR comes up with its own quests, cities, and creatures.
antonius said:Now let me be clear, I do NOT mean what do you want blatantly copied, but I mean more, what kind of interesting and/or unique things do you want to see. Things that really captured the EQ spirit, the exploration, the creativity, etc. Stuff that to you, made it different than other MMOs... stuff that you just really loved, sometimes for reasons you can't even really express. The kind of thing you want to see beyond stuff like death penalties, group centric play, etc. For places, try not to list zones but rather monuments, icons, little spots, etc that were in the game world and had interest or meaning to you.
My example, and honestly there are many more beyond this that make it impossible to choose, but here goes...
Quest: The testament of truth quest for paladins in Freeport. It was so grand sounding, and yet so basic. It was a challenge when you first got it, and usually you wound up dying at first, and in the end, all you got was the piece of paper to take up an inventory slot. It ended up with a great RP element and eventually was part of something grand and great, and made total sense. It even tied in to killing Sir Lucan which was neat. A really great and true quest at the early stages.
Place: The Chessboard. A fascinating reward for exploration and one of the MANY places I could have listed that seemed so neat when you found them, got to be known by name, and always made you wonder about a back story. Places like that were part of what made EQ special if you ask me.
Creature: Sergeant Slate. Again, a ton of choices here for me, but the danger of random high level enemies in certain low level places was so frustrating but so fun at the same time. Obviously he was not everyone's enemy, which made it more interesting. Boy, the satisfaction I got when I finally went back and shoved my sword through that guy...
I would love those, but the fact is you are likely not to get those because a lot of the failures you got were due to not knowing, having to test, and then explore.
Based on the current questing Pantheon has provided, you will not likely get that experience.
Exploration doesn't come with an arrow or sign pointing the way. Even the perception system is nothing more than a bouncing ball for those who have high enough skill. So I doubt that you will achieve the same experience. Mainly because EQ didn't treat the player as a customer, it treated them as an adventurer. That is the difference between games today and back then and while I think VR is trying to achieve some of that past, it will be more "customer service" design than actual game play. You see, game play can anger, frustrate, and upset a player. This can't be in modern development as the player has to be happy at all times, feel wonderful at all times, and so.... game desgn must reward them at every stage. Sorry, but this type of game play is not compatible with todays player base.
dorotea said:None - I want many of the design approaches as often discussed in other threads. I want many of the class abilities and features (quite a few of which have been in later games under different names - things like feign death and evac for example). But I am happy if VR comes up with its own quests, cities, and creatures.
So you want none of that he exrpressed?
((So you want none of that he exrpressed?))
Correct. I feel no need to do a quest and notice that I saw almost the identical quest 10 years ago. I feel no need to see a city and say to myself "If I didn't know better I would have imagined that I was back in Qeynos". I feel no need to see a bat and remember that I saw that identical bat 15 years ago while I was stepping around a pile of guano.
I want much of the gameplay from EQ and Vanguard. I prefer VR to design its own cities and quests and bats - they have far more experience than the designers of EQ and Vanguard did and much better graphics and tools available.
No I am not saying that they are *better* but they have had many years after EQ and Vanguard to play and design MMOs both bad and good to get that experience.
dorotea said:((So you want none of that he exrpressed?))
Correct. I feel no need to do a quest and notice that I saw almost the identical quest 10 years ago. I feel no need to see a city and say to myself "If I didn't know better I would have imagined that I was back in Qeynos". I feel no need to see a bat and remember that I saw that identical bat 15 years ago while I was stepping around a pile of guano.
I want much of the gameplay from EQ and Vanguard. I prefer VR to design its own cities and quests and bats - they have far more experience than the designers of EQ and Vanguard did and much better graphics and tools available.
No I am not saying that they are *better* but they have had many years after EQ and Vanguard to play and design MMOs both bad and good to get that experience.
I honestly didn't expect otherwise. What he described was the basic EQ experience and what I have stated is you want nothing of that, rather what you want is modern mainstream experience.
It is EXACTLY as I have said you were, a mainstrem suppoter. You claim otherwise, but then when pressed, you are mainstream to the core.
Couldn‘t agree more Antonius...great post! It was the little creative touches like those that made EQ so memorable. I would love to see that design philosophy carry over to Pantheon. Some of my favourites were:
Quest: There was a quest in the sewers beneath Qeynos that involved getting a key off a gelatinous cube type mob. The reward was pretty insignificant IIRC, but I rmemeber enjoying it at the time.
Place: Cyclops island in the OOT. The fact that you could see it from the boat while travelling made it one of those places you just had to check out eventually.
Creature: In the caves behind Surefall Glade there was a great bear. I don’t think it was attached to any quest or had any special drops, but it was a unique creature in a starting area that hinted at things to see in the world and the value of exploration.
Here's my answer.
Velious
So, what I mean by answering with Velious is a few things - and probably not what any of you immediately thought of when you read it:
1) I want to see areas of the world that have a similar feeling to what I felt every time I island hopped through Icelad, tromped across the Eastern Wastes, or negotiated the rough terrain of the Western Wastes. Specifically, everything felt vast, and open, and not hemmed in by zone walls. There weren't any safe paths, or really any paths, and you could easily get lost for a while trying to find a place if you hadn't been there before.
2) I want to see faction systems that really matter and encourage players to take a side and get engaged. I'm not talking about gaming the system for your best armor set here, I'm talking about people deciding whether to go with the elves or go with the dark myr and really sticking to that choice for all the reasons, and having that affect which content they do and how they interact with that content as they move forward.
3) I want to see perception and quest chains intertwined with zone and world events, just like all those years ago with the Coldain Ring. Give us the sense that we are a part of an ongoing narrative, that we're in the middle of things that are much bigger than us.
Now, obviously I do NOT want a carbon copy of any part of EQ in Pantheon. I want Pantheon to be its own game and take its own path. I very much agree with dorotea's answer above, and if someone must label me as a supporter of something, what I'm hoping for in Pantheon is more of a spiritual successor to Vanguard than anything else. But if you ask me what we could take from EQ, the "spirit" of Velious is something that I think would fit very well in Pantheon, and so that's what I'd love to see come over, and have it influence the world of Terminus.
antonius said:...Things that really captured the EQ spirit, the exploration, the creativity, etc. Stuff that to you, made it different than other MMOs... stuff that you just really loved, sometimes for reasons you can't even really express. The kind of thing you want to see beyond stuff like death penalties, group centric play, etc.
For me it would be the multi-step quests that really shined in Velious expansion, the Coldain Prayer Shawl and the Coldain Ring quests. I much prefer quests that involve many parts, pieces, steps, places and skills over the 'go here, kill that, come back' type of tasks. Those were quality quests.
Tigersin said:Besides a mob like Fippy Darkpaw? I suppose I was always partial to Kelethin and I'd like to see a city like that. Drunken races were the best in Kelethin.
As of 2018 Fippy Darkpaw was confronted on his bullying behavior, sought counseling and now works as an equal opportunity counselor at a local Qeynos outreach center.
(roll credits)
Watemper said:^Always thought flippy was just a suicidal gnoll lol.
If I would pick one I would like a place like Plane of Mischief....was just soo wacky and nothing like I have seen in any other game.
Great zone, and one that was a Pain in the rear to get back to as it required the NToV to be cleared to access it (that or you were insane).
Puh... I just want to be as dazzled in Pantheon as I was back in EQ and Vanguard really, those games have a special place in my heart.
The first time I entered North Ro... combined with the music... coming from the grassy area or the tunnel towards the dunes... it's an experience that somehow remains stuck in my head.
Vanguard alike had many great places that enchanted me with their looks and music, loved the idea of the Ancient Port Warehouse and to date it's one of my favorite raids... if the game was still around I would play it now.
It doesn't need a copy or anything from EQ, easter eggs would be funny to run into though (looking at you kicking snakes)... but yea,
I just hope that Pantheon manages to enchant me just like those two games did and capture me for a long long time to come - after all it's my last hope for a decent MMO nowdays and it has some big shoes to grow into and from what I have seen and hear so far in streams and on the website they are on a good way imho.
Milkdrop said:Puh... I just want to be as dazzled in Pantheon as I was back in EQ and Vanguard really, those games have a special place in my heart.
The first time I entered North Ro... combined with the music... coming from the grassy area or the tunnel towards the dunes... it's an experience that somehow remains stuck in my head.
Vanguard alike had many great places that enchanted me with their looks and music, loved the idea of the Ancient Port Warehouse and to date it's one of my favorite raids... if the game was still around I would play it now.
It doesn't need a copy or anything from EQ, easter eggs would be funny to run into though (looking at you kicking snakes)... but yea,
I just hope that Pantheon manages to enchant me just like those two games did and capture me for a long long time to come - after all it's my last hope for a decent MMO nowdays and it has some big shoes to grow into and from what I have seen and hear so far in streams and on the website they are on a good way imho.
Truly.
It wasnt just one particular quest, place or thing. I felt like every corner could potentially hold a secret that I could discover for the first time. After the fake wall in Qeynos and the fake walls in FP I think I spent the rest of my EQ career running against the walls in every new town hoping to find secret rooms. Lmao.
Im hoping they embrace the idea during design and mapping to have tons of mysterious areas, camps, strange geographical oddities where everything you run into makes you want to click on it, investigate it and wonder what it means. I dont even care if 20% it actually has significance, its the presentation that makes me question it. EQ had tons of strange orbs on pillars, secret areas, rooms that for some reason looked like they had a special meaning attached to it. Sometimes they did. Sometimes they didnt. In almost everything I have played since EQ, I can usually assess something and say "yeah, I better check that out. They wouldnt have put the effort into that if there wasnt a quest to it." and its true. Eq was chalked full of these things. Little things that would make you say, hmm...why would they have created all that, like that just for show. Thats pretty cool. One of the things that made me fall in love with that game.
On the last Cohh stream, in the dungeon they had this elaborate area that you could just see through a hole. Mesmerizing music queued when close to it. I was like woooooah baby...I remember that. We just stumbled on an EQ WTF is this moment. I think the devs have some intent to do this sort of thing. That was a big moment for me when I saw that to say they are.
Or, maybe its a glimpse of an area that will be used, or a secret area...who knows but I got all EQ curious like back in the day when I saw it.
I apologize for being so vague when you ask for a specific quest, but man if they could implement a quest line like the epic weapons for all classes... that would be so worth it. I just remember the time, dedication, and willpower it took to grind those suckers out and it paid off HANDSOMELY for you and any group you joined.
antonius said:Now let me be clear, I do NOT mean what do you want blatantly copied, but I mean more, what kind of interesting and/or unique things do you want to see. Things that really captured the EQ spirit, the exploration, the creativity, etc. Stuff that to you, made it different than other MMOs... stuff that you just really loved, sometimes for reasons you can't even really express. The kind of thing you want to see beyond stuff like death penalties, group centric play, etc. For places, try not to list zones but rather monuments, icons, little spots, etc that were in the game world and had interest or meaning to you.
My example, and honestly there are many more beyond this that make it impossible to choose, but here goes...
Quest: The testament of truth quest for paladins in Freeport. It was so grand sounding, and yet so basic. It was a challenge when you first got it, and usually you wound up dying at first, and in the end, all you got was the piece of paper to take up an inventory slot. It ended up with a great RP element and eventually was part of something grand and great, and made total sense. It even tied in to killing Sir Lucan which was neat. A really great and true quest at the early stages.
Place: The Chessboard. A fascinating reward for exploration and one of the MANY places I could have listed that seemed so neat when you found them, got to be known by name, and always made you wonder about a back story. Places like that were part of what made EQ special if you ask me.
Creature: Sergeant Slate. Again, a ton of choices here for me, but the danger of random high level enemies in certain low level places was so frustrating but so fun at the same time. Obviously he was not everyone's enemy, which made it more interesting. Boy, the satisfaction I got when I finally went back and shoved my sword through that guy...
actually i think they should have just blatantly copy and paste and just release the game
90% people who are interested in pantheon because they just cant get over that everquest era
Quest: Epic weapons, in concept and somwhere between the easy of Rogues & Shaman and the nearly impossible of Magicians & SKs. If not that, then the Coldain ring and shawl.
Place: Veeshan's Peak, with similar customer services rules/warnings, and a similarly difficult keying requirement.
Creature: Any of the Velious gear/skill/cleric check raid mobs, like Vindi, Sontalak, Aaryonar, etc. I loved the seemingly impossible boss that motivated dozens of people to grind hard to make it more possible, then doable, then farmable/routine.
I have to say I also really liked the drunk bum in freeport you had to give the champagne to for the Soulfire quest. Random spawn who randomly showed up in tavern and in the sewer. Frustrating but added to the explorator nature of the game, the way you would just stumble on things that seemed to have no purpose.
As argued above - I do not want EQ content replicated herein, but I want to have that same FEELIGN that some of those gave me.
Quest: Sorry I have to pick from a tie for first place. 1) Warden Symbol of Tunare. It was obscure and not everyone was runnign around doing it, yet it was very deeply rooted in the lore and was a useful item and the accomplishment was great. 2) Mage Epic 1.0. Skittle Stick is the best graphic in any video game ever and the epic is (for those levels) the most useful and powerful item imaginable.
Place: PoHateB. The spooky gothic feel of this was so amazing. My favorite place of all time in Norrath. So detailed and so immersive!
Creature: Quillmane. Nothing special about the mob or the mob's story but the urban legends and mystery surrounding Quillmane. There were websites dedicated to theories on how to spawn quillmane. There were old-wives' tales about Quillmane. The mystery and misinformaiton surrounding this creature is legendary.
Item: Earring of Living Slime. I added this fourth category. It was so rare and so over-powered that this item sold for over a MILLION plat, back in the day. Something this valuable and this legendary are what drives a lot of the motivation in the game. Just knowing something like that was possibly out there once, maybe, at some point you think you heard. That mystique makes the magic.
