Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Quest rushing

    • 1033 posts
    May 8, 2019 9:09 AM PDT

    Darch said:

    If there is any kind of click/fetch quest system, players will skip content, and some may even be peer-pressured into it (especially with the perception system) because of some players being impatient.  There are a few MMOs that force players to go through cinematics during important quest lines but I understand that this is an enormous undertaking... but those games are typically games that people become immersed in and stay with for a very long time, because nobody likes skipping cinematics unless you've seen it numerous times. 

    To address the O.P., I believe that there will be times where players are "rushed" through several quests, especially if they require more than a couple of mins of reading for people like myself that has to basically silently enunciate each word to really understand the context.  (Very jealous of some of my friends that can speed read).

     

    EQ release didn't have that issue. You didn't mass collect quests as a group. You did quests more as a solo exploration and then once you figured out the quests, found what objectives you had and items you needed to collect, you went out and collected them. In many cases, items for quests would drop even though you were not on a quest and you stored such in the bank till you figured out what it was for. In other cases, you might be solo wandering a city and talking to NPCs where you stumble upon a quest and through inquiry, you gather some information to which you write down and later look into when you are out in the world.

    People talk about the need for solo content, but in games like EQ, the solo play was often this, the exploring quests, talking to NPCs, finding secrets in the cities, the sewers, etc.. If Pantheon goes the route of spam quests, I think it will be a failure on their part. If quests can be spammed due to bouncing balls and people are complaining about how everyone plows through the content and fast runs through the quests, then Pantheon will achieved being like every modern MMO. /shrug

     

     

    • 1315 posts
    May 8, 2019 9:59 AM PDT

    @Tanix

    Reading your post brought something to mind.  First I’m in agreement that I dislike the clickable highlighted quest text, might as well just be a quest window pop up with a next button that everyone rapid clicks through.  Likewise if you know that Guard Bob will accept purple moss samples you will horde up the moss and drop backpacks full on him without even bothering with the quest text.

    To make quests more interesting and less repetitive a large group of generic quest giver guards could pull from a list of styles of requests then a localized objective list.  Every set period of time, or maybe after the guard has received a certain number of completed quests, the guard rerolls his quest setup.  The player actually needs to ask if he needs anything.  Based on a combination of modified faction and relevant perception you get vague to precise hints on what he wants and where to get it.  No hand holding or auto clicking, just reading and thinking.

    Now eventually you might know all 5 collection objectives, the locations of the 5 possible ground spawn objects, the consumable tradeskill items he wants and the evidence of criminal activity he is looking for but it will take time.  Over time the developers could add new options to the matrix as different general scripts are added.  This should end up yielding a much longer “discovery” period and possibly keep it from feeling repetitive.

    • 945 posts
    May 8, 2019 10:55 AM PDT

    Tanix said:

    Darch said:

    If there is any kind of click/fetch quest system, players will skip content, and some may even be peer-pressured into it (especially with the perception system) because of some players being impatient.  There are a few MMOs that force players to go through cinematics during important quest lines but I understand that this is an enormous undertaking... but those games are typically games that people become immersed in and stay with for a very long time, because nobody likes skipping cinematics unless you've seen it numerous times. 

    To address the O.P., I believe that there will be times where players are "rushed" through several quests, especially if they require more than a couple of mins of reading for people like myself that has to basically silently enunciate each word to really understand the context.  (Very jealous of some of my friends that can speed read).

     EQ release didn't have that issue. You didn't mass collect quests as a group. You did quests more as a solo exploration and then once you figured out the quests, found what objectives you had and items you needed to collect, you went out and collected them. In many cases, items for quests would drop even though you were not on a quest and you stored such in the bank till you figured out what it was for. In other cases, you might be solo wandering a city and talking to NPCs where you stumble upon a quest and through inquiry, you gather some information to which you write down and later look into when you are out in the world.

    People talk about the need for solo content, but in games like EQ, the solo play was often this, the exploring quests, talking to NPCs, finding secrets in the cities, the sewers, etc.. If Pantheon goes the route of spam quests, I think it will be a failure on their part. If quests can be spammed due to bouncing balls and people are complaining about how everyone plows through the content and fast runs through the quests, then Pantheon will achieved being like every modern MMO. /shrug

     

    I agree.  I wouldn't mind hording tons of quest items again as long as we had a seperate limitless quest item inventory.  I literally ended up having items in my inventory for YEARS and never figured out what they were for (this was before Wikis were a thing and the only online source was Allakhazam and I had just invested in a new compay called google.)  Like I mentioned in another post (one Nephele's I believe), today's use of search engines combined with "elitist gamer mentalities" will trivialize a lot of the content that use to be considered challenging or "hard core".

    • 643 posts
    May 8, 2019 11:04 AM PDT

    Darch said:...

    I wouldn't mind hording tons of quest items again as long as we had a seperate limitless quest item inventory.  I literally ended up having items in my inventory for YEARS and never figured out what they were for ...

     

    I disagree.  I also horded quest items for years, without ever figuring them out.

     

    But if you have unlimited storage, then you will simply save everything you ever touch and that makes the game trivial.  I *WANT* to worry about figuring out if something is valuable or importaNT or worth keeping.   If I save everything without limitation then everything is without any risk.  And I will simply save every single (tens of thousands of) item.

    If you play five days a week for five years.  And each time you play for two hours a day, you've played for 13000 hours.  And if 1/2 of that time is actually killing enemies, you've been killing/camping/farming for 6500 hours.   

    If you rest and pull and kill every 5 minutes, you've killed 78,000 times.

    If each mob averages 1.5 items per drop, you've looted 117000 items.

     

    (what's the point?)  

     

    Even with crazy made-up math you can see that the number of horded items becomes insane.

     

    You can't have unlimited storage.

     

    • 945 posts
    May 10, 2019 10:23 AM PDT

    fazool said:

    Darch said:...

    I wouldn't mind hording tons of quest items again as long as we had a seperate limitless quest item inventory.  I literally ended up having items in my inventory for YEARS and never figured out what they were for ...

     

    I disagree.  I also horded quest items for years, without ever figuring them out.

     

    But if you have unlimited storage, then you will simply save everything you ever touch and that makes the game trivial.  I *WANT* to worry about figuring out if something is valuable or importaNT or worth keeping.   If I save everything without limitation then everything is without any risk.  And I will simply save every single (tens of thousands of) item.

    If you play five days a week for five years.  And each time you play for two hours a day, you've played for 13000 hours.  And if 1/2 of that time is actually killing enemies, you've been killing/camping/farming for 6500 hours.   

    If you rest and pull and kill every 5 minutes, you've killed 78,000 times.

    If each mob averages 1.5 items per drop, you've looted 117000 items.

    (what's the point?)  

     Even with crazy made-up math you can see that the number of horded items becomes insane.

     You can't have unlimited storage.

     

    You missed the key terms of "separate storage for quest items".  At end game you may have 20 quest items that you may not have used (because you don't know what they are for)... certainly nowhere near 117,000.   But having even 20 quest items (some of which you may never know what they do or require 2 years of grinding rep to use) in your inventory that has a limit of say 300 slots at end game is quite annoying.  Even if it was 3 quest items, I found it annoying as F* holding onto "junk" in my inventory/bank for YEARS.

    add:  The items would still be in your inventory, but you wouldn't have to sacrafice things that may have sentimental value or you just want to hold onto for an alt or friend because you are holding onto potentially useless items just in case someone figures out what it is for.


    This post was edited by Darch at May 10, 2019 10:35 AM PDT
    • 416 posts
    May 10, 2019 4:34 PM PDT

    I remember getting incredibly frustrated with the EverQuest quest system. I felt like I was trying to discover the secret code just to carry on a basic conversation. Now having been through countless games where I have skipped through dialogue as quickly as possible to get the quest, I find I have come back around and am in agreement with Tanix. I would prefer to see a text based system with no highlights, brackets, or clickies. That said, with this system there are two QoL features I would want with it. First, that a single word would trigger the next step and as long as your responce contained that word it would work. So if the quest had something to do with wolves and you said, "What wolves do you want killed?" or "Where are the wolves you want eliminated?" or even, "Hog's spittle man, if it's scurvy wolves that need a beatin', I be the scurvy dog to do it." (Not that I would ever say such a thing) the conversation would continue. The second QoL feature is a quest log that would contain the name and location of the quest giver and the dialogue from the quest.

    • 1033 posts
    May 11, 2019 8:49 AM PDT

    Darch said:

    fazool said:

    Darch said:...

    I wouldn't mind hording tons of quest items again as long as we had a seperate limitless quest item inventory.  I literally ended up having items in my inventory for YEARS and never figured out what they were for ...

     

    I disagree.  I also horded quest items for years, without ever figuring them out.

     

    But if you have unlimited storage, then you will simply save everything you ever touch and that makes the game trivial.  I *WANT* to worry about figuring out if something is valuable or importaNT or worth keeping.   If I save everything without limitation then everything is without any risk.  And I will simply save every single (tens of thousands of) item.

    If you play five days a week for five years.  And each time you play for two hours a day, you've played for 13000 hours.  And if 1/2 of that time is actually killing enemies, you've been killing/camping/farming for 6500 hours.   

    If you rest and pull and kill every 5 minutes, you've killed 78,000 times.

    If each mob averages 1.5 items per drop, you've looted 117000 items.

    (what's the point?)  

     Even with crazy made-up math you can see that the number of horded items becomes insane.

     You can't have unlimited storage.

     

    You missed the key terms of "separate storage for quest items".  At end game you may have 20 quest items that you may not have used (because you don't know what they are for)... certainly nowhere near 117,000.   But having even 20 quest items (some of which you may never know what they do or require 2 years of grinding rep to use) in your inventory that has a limit of say 300 slots at end game is quite annoying.  Even if it was 3 quest items, I found it annoying as F* holding onto "junk" in my inventory/bank for YEARS.

    add:  The items would still be in your inventory, but you wouldn't have to sacrafice things that may have sentimental value or you just want to hold onto for an alt or friend because you are holding onto potentially useless items just in case someone figures out what it is for.

     

    That is the point though. This is the concept of inventory management. You won’t always know what is of value, you won’t have the space to grab everything, horde everything. You will have to sacrifice, make decisions on what you will keep, what you will sell, etc…

    This is why I think them adding in things like special gear bags, food bags, etc… all defeat the entire point of inventory management. The player should have to consider how much food/water to take, the reagents they will carry, bandages, etc… they will have and all take up space. Add in the fact that as things drop, they will have to consider not only the space they have available, but the weight as well.

    What this does is exactly what you are suggesting we avoid, having to make decisions on what to keep, what to sell, what to carry, etc…

    This is also why I dislike quest items being marked “quest item” and them being treated as different than junk. You should be able to go to a vendor and sell off some item you thought was junk. There should be no messages telling you this is a quest item, that you should keep it and here is a special bag to save you space for all your items that you can keep. That defeats the entire point of an inventory management system as well as a quest based exploration system.

    The reason I often bring up EQ is that it, among some of the other early MMOs had all of these smaller sub systems which appeared to be small, unimportant, but were crucial when you looked at how they were layered and interacted with other systems. With each sub-system removed for QoL reasons, the entire concept of play broke down. It isn’t one thing, it is many things and how they were all interconnected.

    So, in terms of bag space and weight, if the solution is to add a bunch of separate bags so people won’t be forced to decide what to keep, then you might as well just have a single bag with unlimited space as the entire point of that solution is circumventing the game play concept of limited bag space.

    The systems are supposed to be about game play, making decisions, with loss and gains, winning and losing as a part of play, not just giving people a bunch of QoL features to allow them to not have to choose.


    This post was edited by Tanix at May 11, 2019 9:18 AM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    May 12, 2019 2:56 PM PDT

    You can't force players that prefer to rush quests to not rush quests.  You can't force an interest in lore and detail.

    What I've seen from VR so far with location triggers and subtle cues with music, sound and visuals is great and makes it much more interesting and immersive, but those that like to rush quests just to get the XP will simply read about them on 3rd party sites and do the minimum to complete them whatever the 'trigger'.  I don't think VR are obscuring triggers to make it unrushable - they are doing it to make it a better experience.

    They'd have to have them be dynamic and random in some way to avoid rushing, but honestly, why do it?  The kind of players that rush quest will rush quests.

    Flavourful voice acting (not everything has to be voiced, but some flavour would be nice for immersion). Quests that find you.  Succinct and interesting text.  Stuff like that is what is needed.

    Like many aspects of the game - all they can do is make it 'good' and hope people want to play it, but some players focus on particular aspects and disregard others no matter what is done.

    To be honest, I've never had a problem with floating question marks and the like, though something less immersion-breaking is preferable. If there are enough NPCs in a world to make it seem lived in, then I am not going to want to actually want to spend the many many hours it would take to deeply question every one of them in every location to find the quests VR have written.

    I *do* read 'the quest text' or equivalent when I find it, however I come across it.  Some don't.  *shrug*


    This post was edited by disposalist at May 12, 2019 3:01 PM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    May 12, 2019 3:11 PM PDT

    Re. quest items, I agree with not labelling them - you should be able to sell or discard something that seems useless to regret it later - BUT that means the devs need to be much more careful and considerate with the way they handle quest items.

    In EQ, for example, it was incredibly annoying to give a quest item to the wrong NPC and not be able to get it back.  If it's not something they really want, they should probably refuse it, not just silently take it and then refuse to talk about it ever again.  Even if you have to kill them to get it back, there should be some option.  (Yes I did lose at least one epic quest component that way...)

    If you can sell quest items to vendors, then you should be able to buy them back within some reasonable time (if no one else has!)

    Small items should actually be small.  In EQ again, OMG it was annoying holding onto gems for quested armor sets later in the game.  One gem takes the same amount of bag/bank space as a breastplate?  ARGH!

    • 1033 posts
    May 13, 2019 7:51 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    You can't force players that prefer to rush quests to not rush quests.  You can't force an interest in lore and detail.

    What I've seen from VR so far with location triggers and subtle cues with music, sound and visuals is great and makes it much more interesting and immersive, but those that like to rush quests just to get the XP will simply read about them on 3rd party sites and do the minimum to complete them whatever the 'trigger'.  I don't think VR are obscuring triggers to make it unrushable - they are doing it to make it a better experience.

    They'd have to have them be dynamic and random in some way to avoid rushing, but honestly, why do it?  The kind of players that rush quest will rush quests.

    Flavourful voice acting (not everything has to be voiced, but some flavour would be nice for immersion). Quests that find you.  Succinct and interesting text.  Stuff like that is what is needed.

    Like many aspects of the game - all they can do is make it 'good' and hope people want to play it, but some players focus on particular aspects and disregard others no matter what is done.

    To be honest, I've never had a problem with floating question marks and the like, though something less immersion-breaking is preferable. If there are enough NPCs in a world to make it seem lived in, then I am not going to want to actually want to spend the many many hours it would take to deeply question every one of them in every location to find the quests VR have written.

    I *do* read 'the quest text' or equivalent when I find it, however I come across it.  Some don't.  *shrug*

    I guess "force" is the wrong word to use.

    Maybe not helping them bypass the quests is better?

    The point I was making that highlights, brackets, etc... all "help" the player to quickly get to the result. There is no interaction, the quests are designed in a way that allows the player to just rush through to the end without paying attention to anything. The quests, their designs are the problem, not the people exactly.

    With a text input system, the player then has to read, has to use their own means to find the quickest way to the result they seek. At the very least, there should be NO leading indicators past that of the texts own writing. LoTRO did this, giving the player just text to read and the directions were in the text (ie the conversation they were reading of the NPC). Some times the text was.. vague in the directions (requiring the player to consider and deduce what the solution was), others it was just simple directions to a given task, but... it was not pointed out, highlighted, or bracketed. You just read the quest.

    Now some people would refuse to read, and then ask for the answer in chat. Some would just read up on a hint site and ignore the quest text entirely. Point is, the base aspect of the quest required the player to interact, read, and figure out the objectives. Something people like me enjoy.

    In a text input system, not only does the player have to read, but they have to read critically, think on what might be needed, what they should ask to further the dialog. Also, because of this approach, you can hide numerous quests on an NPC that aren't available unless you provide questions that are relevant to that quest.

    For instance, one NPC might have 3 quests on them. Of them, only 1 is obvious by talking to the NPC. The other two are triggers based on information from other sources. In one case, the trigger might be some information you gathered from another NPC in town, maybe another town or even the conversations of NPCs in a dungeon. Once you get that info, you can then go back to the NPC and trigger the quest with that knowledge. In other cases, you might have an item drop to which the NPC might have some relation to. Maybe the NPC had a daughter that died, but never spoke of it to you and you take a torn teddy bear you found some place which then when giving it to him, or asking about it, a quest is triggered so you can further inquire about the issue which leads into a quest.

    The difference between that approach and quest brackets/highlights, with no text input is that you have to tell the player of the options available. They by default have to know of the quest to progress it. Even if you put in clever quest flags (ie you hear something from another NPC like in the above example), you are still "telling" the player there is a quest there. In EQ for instance, you could hear some dialog between two NPCs related to another NPC and never know that there was a quest trigger on that other NPC if you didn't pay attention to that conversation and then go ask about it to the other NPC. That is true questing, that is where the player has to pay attention to their surroundings, deduce given conversations, facts, and information and then investigate by talking to NPCs.

    The modern quest method is following a bouncing ball and I think that is why people get bored and think that the quest has to be some literary masterpiece to keep the player interested. You can take a simple quest, with simple concepts and if you hide it behind multiple sources, the "game play" is in the player searching to find out the quest to solve it. The quest might be something as simple as a kill quest, but the mystery of unraveling it would be the entertaining factor (ie finding an item, hearing a conversation, figuring out and talking to the right NPC to open up the quest). There were many quests in EQ that were often just simplistic in their story and concept, but were fun to explore the steps to unravel them due to this form of implementation. A click system lacks this complexity in play (unless they can figure out how to achieve that with their current method, but I am extremely skeptical as so far it appears to still be bouncing ball questing)

     

    • 1033 posts
    May 13, 2019 8:03 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Re. quest items, I agree with not labelling them - you should be able to sell or discard something that seems useless to regret it later - BUT that means the devs need to be much more careful and considerate with the way they handle quest items.

    In EQ, for example, it was incredibly annoying to give a quest item to the wrong NPC and not be able to get it back.  If it's not something they really want, they should probably refuse it, not just silently take it and then refuse to talk about it ever again.  Even if you have to kill them to get it back, there should be some option.  (Yes I did lose at least one epic quest component that way...)

    If you can sell quest items to vendors, then you should be able to buy them back within some reasonable time (if no one else has!)

    Small items should actually be small.  In EQ again, OMG it was annoying holding onto gems for quested armor sets later in the game.  One gem takes the same amount of bag/bank space as a breastplate?  ARGH!

    Agreed, there were numerous things about the quests in EQ which were often... a lack of the technology (or the complexity of implementing the protections were too much effort).

     

    That said, an NPC should give the item back if it is not part of the quest (or proper stage of the quest). If the worry is that people will just spam give items to NPCs to find triggers, it is easy to implement an annoyance counter on the NPC. If you hand the NPC too many things or too quickly, they get offended and attack you (to avoid abuse, you could even make it where this trigger would make the NPC god like in that it can one shot the person as this would avoid players trying to grief by angering an NPC and then having them chase as someone is trying to do a turn in).

    Also, I think EQ did allow you to buy back vendored items, even if they were quest items (I can't remember, but I know some would not). There may be some logic in not allowing this, but that would have to be considered.

     

    As for item slot and space. I think bag space should be a component of mass and weight should be governed by the players attributes. So, you could only put so many items in a bag based on its mass and how much you could carry (weight) would then be a component of how strong and maybe a factor of endurance as well (ie constitution). That way, you could put many small gems in a bag, but eventually the weight would be too much for you to carry. Also, it means that you could only put a limited amount of bulky items in your bag as well (so no storing a bunch of spears, swords, shields, etc... in a bag).

    Though... this gets us into the territory of practical game play. Some things have to be "allowed" in order to further game play, so some basic rules of reality "may" need to be allowed, especially with their multiple armor set solution to environments. It is always a balance between plausible reality and game play.

     


    This post was edited by Tanix at May 13, 2019 9:35 AM PDT
    • 1281 posts
    May 13, 2019 1:09 PM PDT

    It's also important to note that there are two different "quest" mechanisms in Pantheon.

     

    There's the traditional linear text based quest system, like the "lost bag" quest that was shown at the end of one of the group streams a while back, that was sort of a "follow the bouncing ball" sort of thing with highlighted key words.

     

    The second quest system is the Perception system, which will not be a "follow the bouncing ball" system and will require discovery and/exploration, which was shown with the "crying lady" perception quest in one of the streams.  There are no highlighted key words in this sort of quest.

    • 6 posts
    May 14, 2019 10:16 AM PDT

    Remember epic weapon quests in EQ? I mean who could forget the extreme cryptic dialogues and scareceness of resources, information, or even walkthroughs for those quests. Amazing times and such a feeling of accomplishment once you actually took the time and effort to complete those quests. 

     

    I remember camping Lord Rastor in Lower Guk on my monk for 72 hours straight, the feeling of relief I had once he spawned and I got to loot that piece of the epic was such a memorable time.


    This post was edited by Suckmug at May 14, 2019 10:17 AM PDT
    • 1033 posts
    May 14, 2019 10:33 AM PDT

    Kalok said:

    It's also important to note that there are two different "quest" mechanisms in Pantheon.

     

    There's the traditional linear text based quest system, like the "lost bag" quest that was shown at the end of one of the group streams a while back, that was sort of a "follow the bouncing ball" sort of thing with highlighted key words.

     

    The second quest system is the Perception system, which will not be a "follow the bouncing ball" system and will require discovery and/exploration, which was shown with the "crying lady" perception quest in one of the streams.  There are no highlighted key words in this sort of quest.

    Excuse my ignorance Kalok on those issues, as I have chosen to stay clear of most information on the game because I want a new and fresh experience when it is released (it is why I won't likely beta the game, even though I desire to do so).

    I have however seen "some" elements of those systems, and the normal quest systems I am not happy with (ie the highlighting) as it really just modern "bouncing ball" game play in the end. As for for the "perception" system, I have only seen bits an pecies in the play as well as hearing arguments about it and I am not greatly encouraged by what I have seen. Again, this may be a result of ignorance due to my limited research on the issue, but I do remember seeing some game play where the party walked past an area and was given an "indication" of a quest via the perception system to which they focused on what was honestly a form of "question mark" concept of play in their discovering the quest.

    Past that, I don't know how they are to handle it. If however the perception system becomes a "question mark" system, I am not seeing its value. Keep in mind, I understand they need to "alert" a player who has a given skillset to see such things, but... my objection would be in the manner they do. I would rather it be a chat response comment with a description rather than a "here! See me!!! OVER HERE!!! CLICK HERE!" type of system and certainly when such information is found the perception skill should not turn the quest into a bouncing ball. If it does that, it is no different than games like WoW.

    • 1281 posts
    May 14, 2019 11:54 AM PDT

    Tanix said:

    Kalok said:

    It's also important to note that there are two different "quest" mechanisms in Pantheon.

     

    There's the traditional linear text based quest system, like the "lost bag" quest that was shown at the end of one of the group streams a while back, that was sort of a "follow the bouncing ball" sort of thing with highlighted key words.

     

    The second quest system is the Perception system, which will not be a "follow the bouncing ball" system and will require discovery and/exploration, which was shown with the "crying lady" perception quest in one of the streams.  There are no highlighted key words in this sort of quest.

    Excuse my ignorance Kalok on those issues, as I have chosen to stay clear of most information on the game because I want a new and fresh experience when it is released (it is why I won't likely beta the game, even though I desire to do so).

    I have however seen "some" elements of those systems, and the normal quest systems I am not happy with (ie the highlighting) as it really just modern "bouncing ball" game play in the end. As for for the "perception" system, I have only seen bits an pecies in the play as well as hearing arguments about it and I am not greatly encouraged by what I have seen. Again, this may be a result of ignorance due to my limited research on the issue, but I do remember seeing some game play where the party walked past an area and was given an "indication" of a quest via the perception system to which they focused on what was honestly a form of "question mark" concept of play in their discovering the quest.

    Past that, I don't know how they are to handle it. If however the perception system becomes a "question mark" system, I am not seeing its value. Keep in mind, I understand they need to "alert" a player who has a given skillset to see such things, but... my objection would be in the manner they do. I would rather it be a chat response comment with a description rather than a "here! See me!!! OVER HERE!!! CLICK HERE!" type of system and certainly when such information is found the perception skill should not turn the quest into a bouncing ball. If it does that, it is no different than games like WoW.

    There are no question mark ort exclamation point markers for Perception quests.  They walked down a road and heard a woman crying.  That was their clue that something might be afoot as it were.  In addition, when they finished talking to her, they also got another Perception trigger that said, "You have the feeling that you are being watched", or something similar.

    There are also environmental ones that they mentioned, such as in the Jim Lee stream where they found a large stone face among the rocks that they mentioned "could be an indicator of a Perception quest".

     

    It is also important to note that everyone right now, in pre-Alpha, is flagged to be notified when they walk past a Perception trigger.  Once "go-live" hits, you will need to have a Perception level that is sufficiently high to detect it.  Using hte "crying woman" as an example, it is entirely likely that you will not even hear her cry until your Perception skill level is high enough.  But to reiterate, there is no "visual cue" for Perception quests, or even regular quests for that matter, like there are in modern MMOs, such as a !, ?, or light shining down on the quest giver.

    • 9115 posts
    May 23, 2019 4:03 AM PDT

    This thread has been shared on official social media channels as part of my CM content to bring attention to good community discussions, so please keep this one going with any thoughts you may have on quest rushing. :)

    Hot Topic - Quest and Content Rushing - Do you take your time and soak up the quest/content/lore or do you power through to gain the exp/loot and move onto the next one? https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/10464/quest-rushing #MMORPG #communitymatters

    • 68 posts
    May 23, 2019 5:52 AM PDT

    Skip, Skip Skip for me. The fact that you admit you skip if theres an option to but "wish" you would read it is humorous. The players who want to actually read it will, dont force others to read it. Menial experience quests are tedious and boring. I may read an epic quest the first go around.

     

    If youre in a group that wont wait for you I think you need a better group.

     

    As far as actual in game lore, ill wait until someone compiles the entire story of an expansion and go read it all at once.

    • 259 posts
    May 23, 2019 7:04 AM PDT

    I try to enjoy all aspects of the game without rushing.

    • 372 posts
    May 23, 2019 7:47 AM PDT

    Do you take your time and soak up the quest/content/lore or do you power through to gain the exp/loot and move onto the next one?

    More often, I take my time and soak up the quest.  Usually when I PL through lesser quests for exp it is because I want to find out more about the greater story quest.  If there's no greater story quest, I'll read all the lesser ones. 


    This post was edited by Tigersin at May 23, 2019 7:48 AM PDT
    • 193 posts
    May 23, 2019 7:58 AM PDT

    Kalok said:

    It is also important to note that everyone right now, in pre-Alpha, is flagged to be notified when they walk past a Perception trigger.  Once "go-live" hits, you will need to have a Perception level that is sufficiently high to detect it.  Using hte "crying woman" as an example, it is entirely likely that you will not even hear her cry until your Perception skill level is high enough.  But to reiterate, there is no "visual cue" for Perception quests, or even regular quests for that matter, like there are in modern MMOs, such as a !, ?, or light shining down on the quest giver.

    I'm very anxious to find out more about the perception system, but that's multiple other threads. I think part of the reason quests get rushed, particularly games like WoW, was that when you picked one up, you didn't have to read it, your journal had a detailed checklist of exactly what to do - go to the cave, pick up 6 mushrooms, trip 3 levers to open the secret door, kill the guard, take his stuff, take it back to the leader. Part of the fun (for many people) is figuring out the bits that have, of late, been in a nice, neat list. I'm very much looking forward to having to pay attention to my surroundings and look for the clues to find and complete quests.

    There are always going to be folks who don't, though. Some don't want to be engaged on that level and care purely about advancing as quickly as possible, and that's fine. They pay their money just like everyone else. I think they're missing out, but to each his own. It might be a bit self-defeating, however, since 'end game' stuff probably isn't going to be the focus of Pantheon, which I think is great. It's looking like this game is much more about the journey, rather than the destination, so skipping a bunch or speeding through it might leave some pretty disappointed.


    This post was edited by Percipiens at May 23, 2019 7:59 AM PDT
    • 696 posts
    May 23, 2019 7:59 AM PDT

    Quest rushing is quite interesting for me. If they allow a rushing type of click through everything I will do it, because it is simply faster. However, if I have to read the text to figure it out, then I will do that. I prefer, having to read the text and figuring it out, but I will always take the path of least resistance simply because it is the devs fault for allowing that to happen. I can make rules for myself sure, but the culture of the game will always be the least resistance path that the devs allow. So I will most likely take it because I am not a masochist. Now if I had a group of people that would commit to a harder path with me, then that is different. But if I am the only one making dumb rules for myself just to make the game harder then I won't bother.


    This post was edited by Watemper at May 23, 2019 8:01 AM PDT
    • 1281 posts
    May 23, 2019 8:17 AM PDT

    Percipiens said:

    Kalok said:

    It is also important to note that everyone right now, in pre-Alpha, is flagged to be notified when they walk past a Perception trigger.  Once "go-live" hits, you will need to have a Perception level that is sufficiently high to detect it.  Using hte "crying woman" as an example, it is entirely likely that you will not even hear her cry until your Perception skill level is high enough.  But to reiterate, there is no "visual cue" for Perception quests, or even regular quests for that matter, like there are in modern MMOs, such as a !, ?, or light shining down on the quest giver.

    I'm very anxious to find out more about the perception system, but that's multiple other threads. I think part of the reason quests get rushed, particularly games like WoW, was that when you picked one up, you didn't have to read it, your journal had a detailed checklist of exactly what to do - go to the cave, pick up 6 mushrooms, trip 3 levers to open the secret door, kill the guard, take his stuff, take it back to the leader. Part of the fun (for many people) is figuring out the bits that have, of late, been in a nice, neat list. I'm very much looking forward to having to pay attention to my surroundings and look for the clues to find and complete quests.

    There are always going to be folks who don't, though. Some don't want to be engaged on that level and care purely about advancing as quickly as possible, and that's fine. They pay their money just like everyone else. I think they're missing out, but to each his own. It might be a bit self-defeating, however, since 'end game' stuff probably isn't going to be the focus of Pantheon, which I think is great. It's looking like this game is much more about the journey, rather than the destination, so skipping a bunch or speeding through it might leave some pretty disappointed.

    That's the nice part about the Perception system.  You don't *HAVE* to participate in it.  It's your choice to participate and advance your skill.

    • 1281 posts
    May 23, 2019 8:20 AM PDT

    Watemper said:

    Quest rushing is quite interesting for me. If they allow a rushing type of click through everything I will do it, because it is simply faster. However, if I have to read the text to figure it out, then I will do that. I prefer, having to read the text and figuring it out, but I will always take the path of least resistance simply because it is the devs fault for allowing that to happen. I can make rules for myself sure, but the culture of the game will always be the least resistance path that the devs allow. So I will most likely take it because I am not a masochist. Now if I had a group of people that would commit to a harder path with me, then that is different. But if I am the only one making dumb rules for myself just to make the game harder then I won't bother.

    I find this mindset interesting.  Why rush it?  What do you expect to gain by being "First!"?  How is it the devs' fault because you choose to do something?  There's something to be said for taking your time and exploring all of the nuances.  Not only do I read the quests all of the way through, there are times where I take weeks for just exploring and not really doing any experience "grinding".  Exploring is just as fun as "regular" game play to me.  In addition, at least in Pantheon, that exploring is going to have a side-benefit.  It's going to be a part of the Perception system, so I will gain a certain type of skill, Perception, while doing something that's fun.

    • 91 posts
    May 23, 2019 9:12 PM PDT
    As much as I have turned off experience and read through the lore in the past, I have almost nearly that often found myself playing that way alone. Most games these days facilitate rush play to get supporting players to help other players. For example, a quick rush through an instanced dungeon for some cash. More cash if they're new..
    Slowing down the quest clicking and rushing means making more experienced people wait to help someone which is where volunteer mentors came from. It seemed to help me slow down when I had options for responses and no skip
    • 116 posts
    May 26, 2019 9:25 AM PDT

    Wouldn’t be nice if the pereception system triggers an NPC interaction and then the NPC says:

    Can you help me?

    You reply “Yes” or ”No” (a way to opt out and come back later is always nice). 

    Then the NPC says “ I have a problem”, can you solve my [puzzle], [fight] for me, or hear my [story]?

     

    Therby giving the player the option of what type of quest they would like or have time for?


    This post was edited by Grayel at May 26, 2019 9:25 AM PDT