I have really enjoyed reading the "Behind the Design" features in the recent newsletters. Being able to understand why these type of systems are planned for Pantheon is important as it helps facilitate improved community dialogue. It's also nice to learn about the source of inspiration and overall philosophy behind the mechanics. Kudos to Joppa and team VR for shedding light on the design goals and then backing them up with examples of what they may end up looking like in the game. Groundhog Day Syndrome is a very real threat to a living breathing world and it's a breath of fresh air to know that there will be an emphasis on alleviating it. Between the day/night cycles, dispositions, and event system, there appears to be a solid foundation in place that will ultimately combat the monotony that saps the sense of adventure/exploration/immersion from the world. The disposition differentiator is starting to come to life and it's very exciting to think about the impact it will have on our game. On that note, I'm going to delve into some theory-crafting on this mechanic. I apologize in advance for those who hate novels but the recent newsletter really sparked my hype factor for the game.
Deranged
- Immune to stun, mesmerize, and other disorienting effects.
- Will attempt to flee at unpredictable times and in erratic ways.
This disposition seems to counter crowd control abilities. The deranged are immune to mind alteration effects, likely because their minds are already warped and deranged. In other words, these kind of NPC's already suffer from severe disorientation and are thus exempt from further application. This disposition causes multiple layers of conflict in how you deal with them, especially if they have social aggro. If they happen to run off while still having high HP, that's going to create a lot of tension. Burst damage would likely be very useful against these NPC's as you would want to remove them from the equation as soon as possible.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Animal/Humanoid/Vampire/Demon/Giant/Zombie/Ghost
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
Healer/Caster
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Druid/Shaman/Wizard/Necromancer/Enchanter
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Darkness/Isolation/Depravity
Cunning
- Can see through stealth.
- Cannot be attacked from behind or pickpocketed.
- Vulnerable to ranged attacks.
This disposition seems to counter rogues more than any other class. They complicate safe stealth exploration and have a built-in countermeasure against any damage that requires a rear-only positional quadrant. Their vulnerability to ranged attacks makes them an ideal target for rangers but also opens up situational value for ranged abilities in any given toolkit. Depending on the potency of the vulnerability, NPC's with this disposition may end up being prioritized as the first target to be dispatched while dealing with a multi-NPC encounter.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Animal/Vermin/Humanoid
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
Scouts
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Rogues
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Darkness/Climate/Underwater/Underground
Predatory
- Increased Roaming Radius (If Roamer) / Increased Aggro Radius (If Stationary.)
- Increased In-Combat Movement Speed.
- Ambush Bonus (You do not hear the "combat engagement warhorn" sound effect when attacked by a creature with this disposition.)
- Ambush Bonus#2 (If a predatory NPC initiates combat, their first attack receives a damage multiplier.)
- Pack Bonus (If an NPC with this disposition travels in a pack, their allies will attempt to assist killing their target as often as possible, unless they have an overriding disposition that may prioritize a different action.)
This disposition would give new meaning to the idea of hunter NPC's. Their increased roaming radius could add an increased sense of danger and need for situational awareness, even while occupying an ideal campsite where players seek to avoid the chance of being engaged by wandering NPC's. They have a built-in countermeasure to kiting and would likely prevent massive trains, especially if they have any form of hard CC. NPC's with this disposition would be increasingly dangerous if they have any sort of stealth/invisibility/camouflage abilities. As such, it would make sense to utilize tools that can detect those type of abilities while adventuring in an area where these kind of NPC's exist.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Animal/Vermin/Humanoid/Demon/Supernatural Beast
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
Tanks/Scouts
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Warrior/Direlord/Rogue/Ranger
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Stealth/Invisibility/Camouflage/Darkness/Pack-Leader
Pyrophobic
- Fear of Fire (Will attempt to extinguish fire-based light sources.)
- Fear of Fire#2 (Will attempt to CC players who use fire-based attacks.)
- Vulnerable to fire damage.
This disposition would be more common in areas where it is consistently dark such as caves, crypts, and underground dungeons. It would also be more commonly found on nocturnal creatures, regardless of location or the current status of the day/night cycle. NPC's with this disposition would make it difficult to remain focused and oriented while navigating through darkness. Torches might only burn for a limited duration and require a fuel component to reignite them. If your torch is extinguished during combat, it would take time to relight it which would be a tactical decision. Class abilities that offer a non-fire-based light source would be useful while dealing with these NPC's.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Animal/Vermin/Vampire/Plant/Seed-of-the-Spawn (Non-True-Spriggan)
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
None
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Ranger/Necromancer
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Darkness/Night/Underground/Stationary-NPC/Nocturnal-NPC/Wooded-Environment/Cold-Elemental-Properties
Alarmist
- Increased Aggro / Social-Aggro Radius.
- Will periodically "Call For Help" while engaged in-combat. (Will trigger long/wide range social aggro of any allies within qualifying distance.)
- Will attempt to flee (with increased movement speed) after reaching one of several qualifying HP percentages and pulse their "Call for Help" ability every few seconds while running away.
This disposition would be more common in areas where NPC's have social aggro or congregate in packs. Players would likely want to avoid engaging them if they are found in congested space and instead choose to pick off NPC's that are found outside of the boundaries of their increased social aggro range. If players are forced to deal with them in a congested area, it would probably make sense to initiate combat by mezzing these NPC's to prevent them from calling for help. If they get loose, players should keep them silenced as much as possible and attempt to stun/interrupt them if they try to call for help. It would also be important to have CC abilities available for when they try to flee so as to avoid a potential legion of unwanted enemies.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Pack-Animals/Vermin/Humanoid/Giant
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
Scout
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Rogue/Ranger/Bard/Enchanter/Summoner/Warrior/Paladin
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Fortress/Lair/Patrol-NPC/Lookout/Trapper
Sniper
- Extremely long aggro/attack range relative to other NPC's.
- Will remain stationary unless an enemy enters their close-range proximity.
- Detects stealth/invisibility/feign death.
- Increased Accuracy / Critical Hit Chance.
This disposition will naturally counter any attempt to circumvent content via stealth/invisible/feign death, and would be used pretty selectively due to its attributes. These NPC's would likely occupy watchtowers, lookout points, treetops, or fortified barricades. Because these NPC's remain stationary, it's possible to disengage from their range if a player gets hit from an unsuspected attack. If you're in the middle of a bunch of NPC's and get plucked out of stealth/invisible/feign death when you are struck, that's going to be a really bad time. While dealing with snipers, it makes sense to avoid their line of sight and tactically pull enemies out of the area that you are trying to advance to. When the coast is clear you can then make your way toward the sniper, now having a chance to heal through their barrage of incoming damage without being distracted by other NPC's. Allowing a sniper to free-fire on your group while engaged with other NPC's would be a grave mistake.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Humanoid/Construct
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
None
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Ranger/Wizard
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Stationary/Lookout/Vantage-Point
Bloodthirsty
- Increased scent-based aggro range based on the missing health of a player. (Caps at 300% for players in critical health.)
- Will enter a frenzy when a player in critical health is nearby, causing them to become immune to taunt and focus their attacks on that player.
- While in a frenzied state, a portion of their damage will be converted to life steal.
This disposition should strike fear into the heart of an adventurer. Players would need to maintain a respectable distance to ensure that they don't attract an enemy that would be honing in toward their next meal. There would be a layer of risk/reward in play as seasoned adventure parties could send their hobbled meaty halfling to the front line as bait, like tossing chum in the ocean. They should care to not be reckless while trying to exploit this voracious behavior lest they become overwhelmed at the most inopportune of times.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Bear/Wolf/Cat/Shark/Mosquito/Leech/Lamprey/Bat/Vampire/Zombie
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
None
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Warrior/Direlord/Necromancer
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Underwater/Depravity/Hungry/Blood
Acrobatic
- Can and will traverse climbable terrain while roaming or chasing players.
- Increased accuracy, evasion, parry, riposte, and movement speed.
- Immune to root.
- Resistant to snare and attack speed debuffs.
This disposition adds spice and flair to standard roaming patterns, encouraging players to be more mindful of the surrounding environment. These enemies are too nimble to be rooted and will cause headaches for melee classes due to their improved evasion. While casters can step in and provide aspirin for that headache, it's probably ideal that they engage these foes with friends as they are too nimble to root and will be hard to slow down once they have their sights set on a squishy.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Animal/Vermin/Humanoid/Vampire/Supernatural Beast
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
Scout
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Rogue/Ranger/Bard/Monk
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Mountain/Cliff/Pit/Obstacle/Agile/Dextrous/Climbing
Truesight
- Can see through stealth, invisibility, illusions, and feign death.
- Can cast "expose" on a player which allows other NPC's to see them even when there isn't a clear line of sight.
- Can place up to 2 truesight wards that will reveal any player who steps into their vicinity.
- Immune to blind and any debuff that reduces their accuracy.
This disposition would serve as the ultimate sentry ward and should be more common around guarded chokepoints. These gatekeepers try to prevent sneaky infiltration and will cause major headaches for any player who gets caught in the act. The expose debuff would last approximately 60 seconds and would only affect horizontal line of sight. (The line of sight frontal cone or "angle" would still apply but these NPC's could see through walls or other obstructions.) It's possible that an exposed player could leverage their status in a positive way depending on the circumstances. Truesight wards wouldn't cancel the active buff of stealth/invisibility/illusion/feign death, but rather temporarily nullify them while players are in their range.
Potential Qualifying Creature Types:
Humanoid/Vampire/Ghost/Supernatural Beast/Giant/Demon/Dragon
Increased Chance Archetype Modifier For:
None
Increased Chance Class Modifier For:
Druid/Shaman/Wizard/Ranger
Other Potential Qualifiers/Modifiers:
Chokepoint/Sentry/Guard/Fortress/Stronghold/Tunnel/Esconcement/Phosphorescent
One of the more common questions I have seen since yesterday is "How often will we see these dispositions?" I think it would be really cool if there was a complex algorithm that factors in a range of qualifying variables to help make this determination. In the examples highlighted throughout this thread, we see NPC Type / Archetype / Class / Miscellaneous. That list could be expanded a bit for organization and weight purposes but for now, 'miscellaneous' could encompass pretty much everything that could be desired from a creative standpoint. Humanoids could be broken down into goblins/kobolds/trolls/lizardmen/humans, etc., each with their own weight.
Archetype/Class are pretty generic and it would probably make sense to replace these with something more definitive if NPC's don't consistently adhere to class restrictions. Beyond that, there is plenty of potential to add zone-based variables like day/night cycle, climate, region, weather, darkness, and atmosphere. There could also be more of a situational variable for PoI's such as tower, vantage point, island, sewer, fortress, den, treetop, web, barricade, firepit, chamber, etc. Beyond that, the possibilities of "miscellaneous" are pretty much endless. Hungry/Thirsty/Isolation/Depravity/Underwater/Underground/Stealth/Invisibility/Camouflage/Stationary/Roamer/Nocturnal/Elemental-Properties/Lookout/Trapper/Patrol -- all of these things could serve as a "pancake" as Zippyzee likes to call them.
As mentioned in the newsletter:
"When we say Pantheon will be a challenging game, what does that mean exactly? Difficulty can be measured in many ways and is rarely one-dimensional. Some games tune and measure difficulty in terms of actions per minute (APM) or rapid pattern recognition and response. They are challenging because combat requires the player to respond on cue to exact patterns or to fire off a rapid sequence of keystrokes in a short timeframe with little margin for error. But with Pantheon, our philosophy of challenge puts less burden on nimble fingers and more on what we call strategic depth: designing gameplay around a longer-term curve that asks players to make decisions not based purely on reaction time, but by increasing players long-term reward or lowering their long-term risk based on a growing knowledge of the game."
The more pancakes there are in the game, the more this philosophy will be realized. There should be plenty of nuance and variance that can lead to rare/unpredictable scenarios that players really need to think about before they make their move. By combining dispositions with other differentiators like perception, weather/climate/atmospheres, situational gear, and the event system, I truly believe that Pantheon will break ground as a next-generation MMO experience that still adheres to the old-school principles that so many of us cherish. A new and more sophisticated set of challenges await us and I for one am super excited to see all of these features blended together. #ripGroundHogDaySyndrome
Great analysis and theory-crafting! I really enjoyed reading that.
This is a very exciting system with so much potential. I actually recently finished Shadow of Mordor for the first time, so the comparison to that system that was noted in the newsletter made sense. The disposition system in that game was easily one of its best features. I agree this will certainly add a dynamic element to the game that will keep players on their toes, and prevent the autopilot that can occur over time.
@Caine - I can see your point with the disposition appearing before the NPC name to a certain extent. However, given the huge impact the disposition would have on how your group handled the fight, it almost feels necessary. Other visual cues might work, but only if they are readily discernsble prior to combat. Trying to determine a mobs disposition on the fly during the fight would be really tricky, and likely too punishing. Perhaps this will be tied into the perception system somehow? Seems like a valuable thing to have a group member that can reliably ID a mobs disposition.
I'm glad you guys like the idea! I'm going to try and get around to theory crafting the rest of those 12 dispositions and then add whatever others I can find that were mentioned in previous years. According to the newsletter, there will be hidden dispositions that can only be discerned through perception or by equipping rare artifacts. (Or, maybe certain NPC's have a trait where even the more common dispositions have the adjective hidden from their name.) I think using an adjective is reasonable early on as a way to introduce the mechanic and allow players an opportunity to recognize certain traits and grow with the mechanic as they progress through the game. Over time, as the world becomes more challenging, and awareness more involved, players would then need to advance their perception or acquire rare artifacts that allow them to discern behaviors that would otherwise be hidden. Depending on the disposition, it's also possible that players would be able to notice certain traits without having to do any of these things.
As a basic example, I just updated that initial list to include "acrobatic" -- there is an obvious tell for that disposition that when observed by players, should give them a strong indication that the mob has a good chance of being acrobatic. That wouldn't always be a sure thing, though, as it's quite possible that certain disposition-like behaviors could be assigned to mobs on an individual scale rather than having them all uniquely tied into a disposition. There are a ton of ways to go about implementing this kind of mechanic. I am all for having a sense of mystery and even having the need to dynamically react to things after combat is engaged. There is a balance that needs to be struck with reactive/proactive combat and that can absolutely be accomplished. You may see a "Deranged oneADseven" wandering around but that doesn't mean that you're going to tackle it the same way you would a "Deranged Caine." Dispositions are a single pancake in the greater mix and it's all but certain that players will make mistakes and not account for something while they devise a plan on how to overcome a given obstacle.
Oh No....it's a "Acrobatic Caine" it is a rare named Monk from Thornefast, who trained with a disciplined group of Monks. This group travels by Argosy Merchant ship posing as Merchants. These monks trained at sea and were also great seaman.
It's quite interesting but doesn't seem to fit the "disposition system" for some.
Do not take me wrong, they do sound great but not as random attributes. Sniper, Predator, alarmist, acrobat, pyrophobic looks more like bonus to NPC's races or jobs rather than a random disposition you can, or cannot encounter, as any watchmen should have sniper, any sentry or wild predator should have predator, any underdark type creature should have pyrophobic to some degree, etc...
Totally understand your point Mauvais and I agree with you, to an extent. "To some degree" is a key element and that's why I think a complex algorithm should be used to determine the frequency of how often we see certain dispositions. At the end of the day, it doesn't make sense to allow for every NPC to have every disposition in their pool as that can create undesired results. They would need to be implemented tactfully. As I mentioned in my last post, it's also possible to take any single element from a given disposition and apply it to a given NPC. These behaviors don't need to be uniquely attached to a disposition but they would provide variance and change things up a bit. If every underdark creature is pyrophobic then that isn't really a disposition either, it's just standard behavior for all NPC's that match that criteria. Depending on how the algorithm works you could end up seeing some really strange combinations at times. Sure it makes sense for most wolves to be predators ... but sometimes they might be pyrophobic or bloodthirsty. Just like it's possible that all wolves in a given region can sense low health players from further range, regardless of whether or not they have the bloodthirsty disposition. Science, art, math, history, and geography all come into play as a weighted variable.
I agree with that as well and it sounds like we'll see something like that based on the recent newsletter. I made a post a couple of years ago about a "scan" type ability that offered that kind of functionality in FFXI. Between player abilities, perception, general awareness, and artifacts, there is plenty of room to provide this kind of utility and spread it out a bit. I think that an adjective is reasonable for a portion of dispositions, especially early on, but there is definitely an opportunity to add some value to certain classes, situational items, and horizontal progression spheres such as perception and language. https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6632/scan-ability
I get it, but this implementation will result in a list taped to my desktop telling me what I, as an Enchanter, am supposed to do.
To be fair, EQ was the same, just not with name prefixes most of the time. We learned by trial and error.
Would like to see most dispositions only detectable by Perception, and varying over time as the clan or tribe of mobs has more experience with players. So that what wasn't mezzable in a previous encounter but was very resistant to melee damage, or rooting, or whatever, becomes just the opposite based on clan or tribe experience with players.
I'm for more uncertainty and discovery. I also like the suggestion to identify disposition by mob gear, behavior, speech, etc. But if the mob always announces it's dispostion, that is like something that happens in WoW and many other games already, and players just learn to react by the numbers to it.
I'm a big fan of Perception, and I think tactical Perception should be a strong part of the game. Like a Raid Leader would find more utility in developing tactical Perception than other kinds.
Just thinking out loud. I'll play it however it gets implemented, just want to be surprised a lot of the time rather than refer to a list that tells me what to do.
I have a good feeling that the strategic depth afforded by the disposition system and other related features/mechanics will offer a high ceiling for tact and strategy. I'm sure plenty of players will maintain a list of sorts but it won't be as simple as running down a checklist. Knowing that Pantheon is group-centric and role interdependent, players will need to consider a wide range of possible outcomes and then decide which tools from their collective kit makes the most sense to leverage for each individual situation. We should also need to factor in a lot of other "macro-scale" considerations. Knowing the behavioral tendencies of an NPC doesn't provide a fool-proof strategy on how you need to deal with it. You aren't going to deal with a deranged skeletal wizard the same way you would deal with a deranged lizardman warrior. When you encounter multiple NPC's that might each have their own disposition, you also need to be able to prioritize. We haven't even touched on atmospheres/climates or the dynamic event system. In the end, this differentiator has a chance to be a real game-changer. As someone who plans on leading plenty of groups and raids in Pantheon, I know I won't be looking at a list with the mindset that it's telling me what to do. I'll probably absorb all known information but this kind of feature is meant to be dynamic. There shouldn't be an instruction manual that tells people what to do. Players will need to experience things for themselves and then over a long period of time, understand the intricate details and nuance of these kinds of systems and how they mesh with an intricate player-ability system.
bryanleo9 said: It's about time mobs move on from being braindead static spawns.
I can't wait. I do agree with others, though, and don't want to see {a cunning orc scout}. Visual clues like apparel, weapons, maybe pathing are my preference as apposed to a giveaway name tag.