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The March Newsletter is here!

    • 2419 posts
    March 21, 2019 1:54 PM PDT

    Land said:

    A Q&A section with many answers of "soon" is not appropriate and only adds filler. Why even bother including them? Of course they're always being worked on.

    I too noticed that and immediatly thought 'WTF..why bother putting in the question only to say you can't answer the question?"  Pick a question you actually can answer next time. 

    • 3237 posts
    March 21, 2019 4:22 PM PDT

    I can only speak for myself but I was pretty happy to see some of the non-committed responses.  For example:

    @IDDQD90617269 asks: Will the game launch with an AA system and an alternate way to use character xp?

    CP: We are exploring a few ideas, but nothing concrete to share at this time.

     

    That doesn't really provide any insight into what kind of ideas they are exploring, but I thought it was really nice to see that it's something they are considering, at the very least.  Even when it comes to progeny, I'd rather see a "We're not ready to discuss this yet." as opposed to "Progeny has been scrapped."  Avoiding the question would probably have been more negative than positive as it would have appeared that it's no longer on their radar.  I am as excited as anybody to learn about progeny but I also understand that it's going to remain on the backburner while they sort out the major differentiators that are planned for Project Faerthale.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at March 21, 2019 4:22 PM PDT
    • 201 posts
    March 21, 2019 4:25 PM PDT

    Valorous1 said:

    barod1989 said:

    Crazzie said:

    How many more pre alpha stages do we have to go until Alpha?

     

    i want to know too and when ?

    By the sounds of it, they need probably 3 more months (AT THE LEAST) just to complete Project Faerthale. Which after that i dont know if they are going to go into the next Pre-Alpha or use PF as the first of the Alpha content. 

     

    Yeah that is the problem...eventually there is a limit to how long most, even many die hards, will be willing to wait.  This really is seeming like this won't come out until 2022 possibly and that frankly, is too long.  It is the catch 22...we all want a good product at release, because no one wants a VG type beginning and end (what a great game though), but we also can't follow a game for like 10 years.

    • 9 posts
    March 22, 2019 4:11 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Land said:

    A Q&A section with many answers of "soon" is not appropriate and only adds filler. Why even bother including them? Of course they're always being worked on.

    I too noticed that and immediatly thought 'WTF..why bother putting in the question only to say you can't answer the question?"  Pick a question you actually can answer next time. 

    I think it's important that they recognise there are features which people have a lot of interest in but they cannot or will not publically give an update on yet. If the sections were missing entirely then that would create more forum churn asking why there is nothing even acknowledged for these questions. Personally, at this point, I'll give them loads of slack for saying "yep we know you want an answer - but nothing to report at this time"

    • 523 posts
    March 23, 2019 8:32 PM PDT

    antonius said:

    Yeah that is the problem...eventually there is a limit to how long most, even many die hards, will be willing to wait.  This really is seeming like this won't come out until 2022 possibly and that frankly, is too long.  It is the catch 22...we all want a good product at release, because no one wants a VG type beginning and end (what a great game though), but we also can't follow a game for like 10 years.

     

    The only limit to how long we will wait is if/when a better MMO gets developed.  That's it.  What has it been?  A decade since Vanguard bombed?  Still waiting.  World of Warcraft classic comes out at some point this summer, that will be a fun game to relive for a little while, maybe even a year or so, at least until Pantheon gets to beta.  But, like everyone else, I'm waiting for an MMO I can play for 5-10 years.  I've been lucky to have experienced three in my lifetime (EQ1, EQ2, WoW), I'm hoping I'll see a fourth, either here or elsewhere.  But I'll keep on waiting until I'm dead.

    • VR Staff
    • 167 posts
    March 25, 2019 9:25 AM PDT

    artavash said:

    Vandraad said:

    Land said:

    A Q&A section with many answers of "soon" is not appropriate and only adds filler. Why even bother including them? Of course they're always being worked on.

    I too noticed that and immediatly thought 'WTF..why bother putting in the question only to say you can't answer the question?"  Pick a question you actually can answer next time. 

    I think it's important that they recognise there are features which people have a lot of interest in but they cannot or will not publically give an update on yet. If the sections were missing entirely then that would create more forum churn asking why there is nothing even acknowledged for these questions. Personally, at this point, I'll give them loads of slack for saying "yep we know you want an answer - but nothing to report at this time"

     

     

     

    This sums it up nicely. Mulitple people asked questions on topics we aren't ready to give the details on yet, so it was important to just regonize that the questions were asked and not ignored. 

    • 74 posts
    March 25, 2019 6:43 PM PDT

    Roenick said:

    artavash said:

    Vandraad said:

    Land said:

    A Q&A section with many answers of "soon" is not appropriate and only adds filler. Why even bother including them? Of course they're always being worked on.

    I too noticed that and immediatly thought 'WTF..why bother putting in the question only to say you can't answer the question?"  Pick a question you actually can answer next time. 

    I think it's important that they recognise there are features which people have a lot of interest in but they cannot or will not publically give an update on yet. If the sections were missing entirely then that would create more forum churn asking why there is nothing even acknowledged for these questions. Personally, at this point, I'll give them loads of slack for saying "yep we know you want an answer - but nothing to report at this time"

     

     

     

    This sums it up nicely. Mulitple people asked questions on topics we aren't ready to give the details on yet, so it was important to just regonize that the questions were asked and not ignored. 

    I think people need to think a bit more critically and not accept this thinking. Saying "It's being worked on" is functionally the same as ignoring it unless a timeline of reveal is given. We need accountability and tangibles not more of the "feels."

    • 2886 posts
    March 25, 2019 8:16 PM PDT

    Land said:

    Roenick said:

    artavash said:

    Vandraad said:

    Land said:

    A Q&A section with many answers of "soon" is not appropriate and only adds filler. Why even bother including them? Of course they're always being worked on.

    I too noticed that and immediatly thought 'WTF..why bother putting in the question only to say you can't answer the question?"  Pick a question you actually can answer next time. 

    I think it's important that they recognise there are features which people have a lot of interest in but they cannot or will not publically give an update on yet. If the sections were missing entirely then that would create more forum churn asking why there is nothing even acknowledged for these questions. Personally, at this point, I'll give them loads of slack for saying "yep we know you want an answer - but nothing to report at this time"

     

     

     

    This sums it up nicely. Mulitple people asked questions on topics we aren't ready to give the details on yet, so it was important to just regonize that the questions were asked and not ignored. 

    I think people need to think a bit more critically and not accept this thinking. Saying "It's being worked on" is functionally the same as ignoring it unless a timeline of reveal is given. We need accountability and tangibles not more of the "feels."

    How are they supposed to know when a reveal would be ready? Game development is notoriously hard to predict longterm. Forcing them to give deadlines for everything would just put unnecessary pressure on them to rush (and sacrifice quality) to meet those deadlines lest they suffer the wrath of community outrage. This type of pressure and bullying from game communities is what messed up the MMORPG genre in the first place. My critical thinking suggests that there's always more going on behind the scenes than any of us are aware of and we are not entitled to know every detail of development.

    • 1921 posts
    March 26, 2019 10:51 AM PDT

    It's not bullying.  It's respect and professionalism.

    Those two things that exist when large companies set milestones for teams, and there are consequences or rewards if those milestones are missed or met, respectively.  As in, that's what we as the community of interest, expect and are not getting, by design.  It's not surprising, it's just frustrating and annoying.  After I was burned by Shroud, I vowed I would never again "donate" more than the box price to a company, ahead of launch.  And I have held my vow and will continue to do so.

    All this current Kickstarter/Crowd_whatever style of development has done is remove all the respect and prefessionalism from the equation, and now customers, or indeed, anyone who isn't on the team, can be completely ignored until all the money is spent and ~nothing is delivered.
    And we see, as a result: indefinite timelines, vague promises, and nebulous deliverables.  At least with the patron model, one person could and did hold the artist accountable.

    • 193 posts
    March 27, 2019 8:18 AM PDT

    vjek said:

    It's not bullying.  It's respect and professionalism.

    Those two things that exist when large companies set milestones for teams, and there are consequences or rewards if those milestones are missed or met, respectively.  As in, that's what we as the community of interest, expect and are not getting, by design.  It's not surprising, it's just frustrating and annoying.  After I was burned by Shroud, I vowed I would never again "donate" more than the box price to a company, ahead of launch.  And I have held my vow and will continue to do so.

    All this current Kickstarter/Crowd_whatever style of development has done is remove all the respect and prefessionalism from the equation, and now customers, or indeed, anyone who isn't on the team, can be completely ignored until all the money is spent and ~nothing is delivered.
    And we see, as a result: indefinite timelines, vague promises, and nebulous deliverables.  At least with the patron model, one person could and did hold the artist accountable.

    I understand where you're coming from. I, too, was burned by a kickstarter not that long ago. I really feel for those people who have 'invested' untold hundreds and even thousands in a certain space themed game that's being funded this way. 

    I think it needs to be remembered that the reason VR is not a large company and elected to not be accountable to a fund source was to maintain the integrity of what they wanted to see and play themselves. This keeps them in control of the GrandVision(tm), but also impedes progress by not having (relatively) unlimited resources at their disposal. It has been addressed in blogs and posts that one of the reasons they aren't putting hard dates on things is to avoid the serious letdown that would accompany it within the community if/when it didn't happen. It's very frustrating for me and I've only just recently signed on. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for some of you who've been here for years. As frustrating as it is, though, I don't want to see another dumbing down, premature release or something that doesn't happen at all. Guess what it comes down to is this. I'm ready to enter Terminus and begin my adventure now, but can't. As frustrating as that is, I think the folks that are working on this game have a proven record and will deliever a great experience, just not as fast as any of us (including them, I suspect) wants.

    • 432 posts
    March 29, 2019 5:16 AM PDT

    antonius said:

    Yeah that is the problem...eventually there is a limit to how long most, even many die hards, will be willing to wait.  This really is seeming like this won't come out until 2022 possibly and that frankly, is too long.  It is the catch 22...we all want a good product at release, because no one wants a VG type beginning and end (what a great game though), but we also can't follow a game for like 10 years.

     

    I have the same feeling . 2 years ago I was coming and contributing here every day . Today I jump here to have  a fast look for 5 minutes once a month perhaps less . I noticed that almost all regulars I knew between 2015 - 2017 have disappeared too .

    I think that it belongs to the natural order of things - regardless how enthousiastic we might have been 4 years ago , nobody is able to stay at the same level of committment and enthousiasm for more than 1 or 2 years . An MMO takes time to be developped (many remember the horror when the release is rushed like VG) but it seems to me that Pantheon is on the way to break records of the longest development time . It has surely objective reasons - small teams , crowd financing and such but the fact that it can be explained  won't prevent the natural erosion of the initial enthousiasm of pledgers and followers .

    Well , anyway , I'll go on playing Lotro and Teso every now and then when I feel like having a pleasant session of MMORPG and when Pantheon eventually releases , I will surely try it out if PCs for gaming still exist .

    • 1 posts
    March 29, 2019 4:50 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    The only limit to how long we will wait is if/when a better MMO gets developed.  That's it.  What has it been?  A decade since Vanguard bombed?  Still waiting.  World of Warcraft classic comes out at some point this summer, that will be a fun game to relive for a little while, maybe even a year or so, at least until Pantheon gets to beta.  But, like everyone else, I'm waiting for an MMO I can play for 5-10 years.  I've been lucky to have experienced three in my lifetime (EQ1, EQ2, WoW), I'm hoping I'll see a fourth, either here or elsewhere.  But I'll keep on waiting until I'm dead.

    Sums it up nicely. My guild of sixteen years has waiting a long. damn. time.

    Some have settled for other games along the way, but nothing ever took hold for us like the Big Three did.

     

     

    • 9 posts
    March 29, 2019 10:03 PM PDT

    Kazee said:

    Mathir said:

    The only limit to how long we will wait is if/when a better MMO gets developed.  That's it.  What has it been?  A decade since Vanguard bombed?  Still waiting.  World of Warcraft classic comes out at some point this summer, that will be a fun game to relive for a little while, maybe even a year or so, at least until Pantheon gets to beta.  But, like everyone else, I'm waiting for an MMO I can play for 5-10 years.  I've been lucky to have experienced three in my lifetime (EQ1, EQ2, WoW), I'm hoping I'll see a fourth, either here or elsewhere.  But I'll keep on waiting until I'm dead.

    Sums it up nicely. My guild of sixteen years has waiting a long. damn. time.

    Some have settled for other games along the way, but nothing ever took hold for us like the Big Three did.

     

     Amen

    • 257 posts
    April 3, 2019 3:03 PM PDT

    I just read the Kotaku article about Bioware's development of Anthem. It made me appreciate these newsletters a whole lot more.