Forums » The Enchanter

Illusion: Target

    • 504 posts
    March 14, 2019 5:34 AM PDT

    Yea or nay?  What restrictions?  Does size REALLY matter?  I think a spell like this should NOT allow passive abilities.  Opinions?

    • 1564 posts
    March 14, 2019 7:03 AM PDT

    Only faction modifiers for me.

     

    It's an illusion not a metamorphosis.

    • 504 posts
    March 14, 2019 10:42 AM PDT

    For this particular spell I would agree.  Do we even know what the passive abilities for say a squirrel might be?  What about a dragon?  I honestly dont think we should be able to target a giant-class target for this spell.  But hey!  If I wanna walk across a zone as a cow?  Why not?  Other inhibiters should be things like "no-zone", "no-flight", "no-swim" etc.  Now if you are talking about an Enchanter spell to targets themself only and changes their appearence to that of another race?  They SHOULD get passive abilities.  This is only because a good Enchanter would remember to add the things that really sell that illusion.  I will also state that these forms of illusions should not stack.

    • 147 posts
    March 15, 2019 6:09 AM PDT

    As illusions only make you appear something you are not, it should not have any other benefits than things that are based on appearance, such as faction.

    You should never get additional benefits such as anti stun from the ogre / troll. You just appear to your target as something else, but in fact you are not. I can understand that if you would have an illusion 'nightmare' that the target would become very afraid of you and run away. But if that target choose the fight instinct, a punch will be a punch.

    • 504 posts
    March 15, 2019 8:05 AM PDT

    decarsul said:

    As illusions only make you appear something you are not, it should not have any other benefits than things that are based on appearance, such as faction.

    You should never get additional benefits such as anti stun from the ogre / troll. You just appear to your target as something else, but in fact you are not. I can understand that if you would have an illusion 'nightmare' that the target would become very afraid of you and run away. But if that target choose the fight instinct, a punch will be a punch.

    And this is why intelligent design must play a role.  If a mouse decides to use Illusion Elephant and it does NOT come with an aspect to make him larger, no one would be convinced he was an elephant.  This is the same thing.  If an enchanter cast illusion: Dark Myr it should come with enduring breath.  No one is going to believe that the enchanter is a Dark Myr if they start coughing and drown.  Does illusion: Ogre need to come with stun prevention to be convincing?  I don't think so.  But to be fair, Enchanters have always had a little bit of help in the form of Focus - which helps prevent you from being interupted while casting.  What would be so special about Illusion : Human?  What passive racial ability would be associated with that?  I can't think of one.  So maybe there isn't a passive for THAT illusion.  Every illusion does NOT need to come with passive abilities.  But let's use some common sense and give passives to those illusions that would most certainly require it in order to complete the illusion.

    In my opinion, Illusion: Target would be a short-term illusion that may or may not work.  It does NOT have the certainty of dedicated illusions.  Therefore there would be NO passives for this particular illusion spell.  It would also have a steeper curve to the spell-check anything would have when observing you while using this illusion.

    This brings me to another question.  Does a spell-break on an illusion break the spell for everyone/everything?  Follow this:  I cast Illusion Target on a wolf.  Now I run up to a farm area.  The cows see me and, being of a lesser mind, begin to behave as they would around a real wolf.  The farmer comes out of the house and sees me but immediately sees that I am really not a wolf.  But does that mean the cows can see that I am really not a wolf?  If one cow detects that I am not a wolf does it mean the whole heard will suddenly realize that I am not a wolf?

    • 37 posts
    March 17, 2019 7:40 AM PDT

    Enchanter must have illusions with faction modifiers.  Now if there is a shapechanging ability, and I don't think shapechanging is completely unrealistic for an enchanter, then give them abilities.  Druid and Enchanters seem reasonable for shapechanging.

    Mal

    • 45 posts
    May 2, 2019 5:47 PM PDT

    Perhaps rename them from Illusions to Skin-Changing.  This way the "illusion" and "passives" both come with the spell.  "Enchanter" does not mean "Illusionist".  They could still use "Illusions", but then "Enchant" then illusion to gain the "passives" of that illusion.  

    • 1564 posts
    May 3, 2019 1:57 AM PDT

    On a magic school not really accurate for pantheon but offering an "usual" point of view :

     

    Enchanting is a school of the mind, persuading a target that it cannot act, move, or is bound to you will.

    Illusion is a school of the mind, which often imply convincing the other that something is, or is different, even possibly convincing someone he is harmed by an illusionary creature or weapon.

    Transmutation is a school of matter, making things different for a variable amount of time, including body changes, petrification, but "usually" also be used for spells like improved speed, which overlaps a bit the the enchanter of EQ.

     

    I don't think any spell named "illusion" should offer passives, it's more something you use to trick the other's perception of you. But on some scale, an illusion can be so potent the other actually believes you are a giant crushing him and his mind persuade his body that he is dead, and thus he dies.

     

    The real question comes about : should the enchanter really have access to transmutation, and the ability not only to look, but act and gain the powers of something else ? I think it would cut the possibility of adding more mage classes later.

    • 7 posts
    June 7, 2019 12:48 AM PDT

    When I first read this I thought "Why would anyone want to be a target? People will shoot arrows into you." Then I actually engaged my brain.

    • 265 posts
    June 7, 2019 9:21 AM PDT

    Illusions should not give you the innate abilities of the race or creature you turn into imo. It should however give you faction bonuses to that race because the NPCs wouldn't "know" you're not one of them. I would also be for turning into some random object or whatever in a dungeon as sort of a stealth. 

    • 23 posts
    June 23, 2019 10:39 AM PDT

    i read some good comments and in my opinions enchanter must be divided in 2 classes

    illusion and enchanter so in group both classes can be complementary each other

    but means more code for VR :D but imagine the possiblities

    sry for my english and i hope its anderstanbding xD

    • 192 posts
    July 29, 2019 5:23 PM PDT

    This was actually entertained in EQ1. The reason being that illusions had to be a form that was in the zone cache. You see, when you zoned in EQ1, you loaded a cache with all the image files, sprites, textures etc. Some were models and were universal meaning that they were default in every zone. That would be racial to include elementals and skeletons due to Mage and Necromancer pets. Specific Enchanter illusions were given to them for a reason. Racial illusions for the obvious reason but also because in the case of Skeletons, Elementals, and Spirit Wolves, they were the pets for those classes being Necromancer/SK, Mage and Shaman with the inclusion of Druid wolf form which used the same graphic. There was one bone thrown at Enchanters and that was Werewolf. This was due to a number of reasons but one was because the model was used in numerous zones as is partly due to four GM events, two of which were meant to be cyclical and happen throughout all of the vanilla zones. 

    Illusion: Target would have effectively allowed this but without needing to add any image or graphic to the cache of a zone where in some zones, the cache was already nearing limits. As this was brought up on The RUnes website back around 2001 a response was ultimately given. To paraphrase, their response was that it could create complications due to how illusions are coded. It would also need to have a size restriction and as of that point, they had no value attributed to NPC's that gave a size restriction on copying or mimicking. In all, the general consensus was that they couldn't be bothered because it would be more work than they wanted.

    That's not the case with Pantheon however and I entertained the idea in my spell list last year but it appears they want to stick with a copy paste from EQ with Minor Illusion and the racial illusions. Now, that is only the concept spells and we could see more introduced over time. Possibly an Illusion: Target but I wouldn't hold my breath as they appear to be somewhat lazy regarding Enchanter concepts. Something I've been somewhat vocal about in the past.


    This post was edited by Janus at July 29, 2019 5:27 PM PDT