Forums » Pantheon Fan Creations

Some Clarifications from VR regarding Alpha plans

    • 3138 posts
    February 20, 2019 7:48 AM PST

    Syrif said:

    VR: you take as long as you need. It is no race. Let's get this game done right. 

     

    Hear! Hear! :)

    • 82 posts
    February 20, 2019 7:49 AM PST

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    Ghool said: So if Jason joined in November and has been building the tools required for the developers, I'd say it'll be a few more months before the next pre-alpha rolls out.

    Note... that interview was from July which means he started back in 2017, not this past November.

     

    Ah, so that's probably why they had to delay alpha then. They were probably debugging and polishing the tools and systems for the developers to start cranking out the content and zones.

    My guess would be that the maps and zones are already planned out, and now all that's required is some ironing on those systems implemented, building more zones, and fleshing out the world with NPC's baddies and so-on.

    I still say we'll likely see a holiday season 2020 for release. If it's sooner than that I will be very surprised and elated.

    • 40 posts
    February 20, 2019 8:53 PM PST

    As of now i actually doubt we will see alpha this year.
    My guess is that they will stay in the "pre-Alpha" until they are ready for "beta" and then do a short "alpha" release before they release the "beta". This will also lead to the beta being longer then the Alpha.

    This way they can avoid opening it up to alpha backers while still technically do what they said they would do, in reality though alpha and beta backers will test pretty much the same game.

    Also i appreciate the video and analysis but it does come over a little too much in favor for VR, the truth are that they went from "alpha" in the next 4 months to 8 months later having no date. The restructuring of the alpha is probably true but forced on them due to decision and time constraints.


    Anyway, still looking forward to the release and my Alpha(really beta) testing.

    • 38 posts
    February 20, 2019 11:52 PM PST

    I mean Joppa said in a stream that actual alpha was targeted for end of 2018.(not officially)

     

    Don't think they are that far off, the world all built and in place I assume, they just want to make it look pretty and work out some obvious bugs.

    Was a smart idea to not give themselves a hard deadline so they can work at their own pace.

     

    But it's also obvious to them that right now the Pantheon interest is as high as it has ever been, and waiting too long would only be counter productive.  I know they are all hard at work to give us something soon.

     

    Stay beautiful VR



    • 180 posts
    February 21, 2019 10:46 AM PST

    Keno Monster said:

    There's zero evidence other than your sunny side thinking to suggest they'd be in their previous version of alpha by now. We're moving the goalposts right along to support this narrative. The reply from VR was a bunch of meaningless "coach speak". 

    I'm gonna go ahead and assume you didn't witness the beta and release of Vanguard. Many of those at VR did, as did many of us in the audience, and nobody wants a repeat performance.  It was catastrophic for that game, released into the wild well before it was fully baked and absolutely panned by fans and media alike.

    As much as I'm dying for a good MMORPG right now -- and for the last few years -- I'm willing to wait for PRotF to be ready for broader exposure.  Many (most? all?) of us want a game that is going to last for many years, a place we can call our virtual home for the foreseeable future.  A poor release, even a poor alpha that will open the doors to hundreds if not thousands of us, could spell disaster.

    Expecting VR to release details on a regular basis, or ever for that matter, is setting yourself up for disappointment. They can't.  If they did then had to change something, anything, tons of people would get upset and run to these forums to rage about it.  That's not good for the game either.  I'd love more details, too, but they're still building the game... Nothing is set in stone, certainly not release dates, the most contentious detail of all.  While things are still under construction by a relatively small team for such an ambitious project, yes, the goalposts will keep moving.  This isn't an end table kit from IKEA they're building.

    • 171 posts
    February 24, 2019 4:02 PM PST

    With new staff that has to be trained and brought up to speed in  the development at the moment it brings a smile knowing that they are taking the time to polish it more before any beta is made to the public. As Akilae mentioned above, we do not want a Vanguard repeat. I went to the Fanguard event in Vegas at an optimistic time during the development and it did not take long before the funding climate changed for the unexpected worse.

    Regardless of non disclosure agreements there will be leakers due to our new era of social media, so it would be wise to limit as much possible negative reviews when a game is in an early development. Most large scale projects such as this take around four years to get from concept to release and that is with a AAA company budget. The small tight team developing this game is fantastic. *cheers* I want it to be ready no sooner than it needs to be.

    • 40 posts
    February 25, 2019 12:22 PM PST

    Yaladan said:

    Regardless of non disclosure agreements there will be leakers due to our new era of social media, so it would be wise to limit as much possible negative reviews when a game is in an early development. Most large scale projects such as this take around four years to get from concept to release and that is with a AAA company budget. The small tight team developing this game is fantastic. *cheers* I want it to be ready no sooner than it needs to be.

    This may be true but to first "sell" alpha access and then start pushing alpha for something like multiple relases of "pre-alpha" until the are "ready" is borderline bait-and-switch. I may be wrong and we will see, maybe the game is so far from ready that they will actually go into an alpha phase in the end of the year and beta end of next year.

    If the Alpha access on the other hand turn out to be a "head start" for beta it will show that VR have the same view of peoples money as they have been accused of based on previous none VR events.

    • 127 posts
    March 9, 2019 2:14 PM PST

    Ghool said: I've done a.significant amount of world building myself. I would expect the development of the world and zones to accelerate over the next year. The part that takes the most time, is establishing the main systems and programs/scripting that run the rules. It appears from the live streams that at this point the majority of primary systems are in place. I just wonder if they have developed a toolset to expediate the process, but based on the development time line, yes, although it appears to still need textures for some parts, as well as models. Based on what I have experienced, they have the time to build all the continents and zones over the next year. That's the easiest and quickest part, really. So based on what we know about how many zones are built, I wouldn't sweat it. I would be more concerned if the classes and combat system wasn't yet finalized. But since they are actively tweaking those systems, and no longer building them, we will see quite a bit of progress on the zone and continent building this year. Keep calm and remain hyped. It won't be long now.

    Well said.  Glad I read through, you saved me some time with this Ghool. 8-)

     

    --- My opinions are not humble, they are just my opinions. ---

    • 4141 posts
    March 12, 2019 3:55 PM PDT

    msk12 said:

    Ghool said: I've done a.significant amount of world building myself. I would expect the development of the world and zones to accelerate over the next year. The part that takes the most time, is establishing the main systems and programs/scripting that run the rules. It appears from the live streams that at this point the majority of primary systems are in place. I just wonder if they have developed a toolset to expediate the process, but based on the development time line, yes, although it appears to still need textures for some parts, as well as models. Based on what I have experienced, they have the time to build all the continents and zones over the next year. That's the easiest and quickest part, really. So based on what we know about how many zones are built, I wouldn't sweat it. I would be more concerned if the classes and combat system wasn't yet finalized. But since they are actively tweaking those systems, and no longer building them, we will see quite a bit of progress on the zone and continent building this year. Keep calm and remain hyped. It won't be long now.

    Well said.  Glad I read through, you saved me some time with this Ghool. 8-)

     

    --- My opinions are not humble, they are just my opinions. ---

    Definitely true. I talked about that in my most recent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJdZm8N8XpU Project Faerthale will allow them to nail down their workflow for building a zone from start to finish which will allow them to complete the rest of the zones much more efficiently. Momentum from more funding, more team members, better systems, etc. has a tendency to compound on itself, so they can complete more in less time than ever before.

    • 486 posts
    April 6, 2019 9:27 AM PDT

    Ghool said:

     

     

    My guess would be that the maps and zones are already planned out, and now all that's required is some ironing on those systems implemented, building more zones, and fleshing out the world with NPC's baddies and so-on.

     

     

    This is not a guess , it is an absolute certainty .

    If there are some people here who are familiar with time management of complex projects , then they would know that Pantheon is necessarily using a tool of the PERT (Program Evaluation and Review Technique) family because without that any complex project would crash and burn .

    In VR it is Lynn who has that in charge . But a PERT is constructed by always specifying the end target - if no end target is specified then you only get a never ending mess . From that follows that VR perfectly KNOWS what release date was put in their time management tool . However as they are today probably somewhere around 15 % completion and as the progress curve is ALWAYS an S curve (slow start , fast middle and slow finish) , they are unable to extrapolate with a reasonable accuracy when 100 % will be reached .

    This  is why they won't commit on anything but that doesn't mean that they don't exactly know what release date is planned and how the planned progress compares to the actual progress . This is also why I am almost sure that the 3 continents are included in the time management tool because if they were not , it would be practically impossible to include a 3rd continent at 50 % progress and basically scratch the whole planning and reschedule every single task . You can't imagine the apocalypse that would be unleashed in that case .

    Finally if I take my 15 % progress estimate as approximately correct , suppose that the ressources don't vary and use a standard project S curve , I come to the conclusion that they will reach 85 % in about 1 year and then need 1 + year to get the last 15 % - this is always the most delicate period because sometimes it is necessary to cut the new ideas somewhere and say "Now we freeze the project at THAT point" . That would lead to a realease somewhere mid 2021 and a beta perhaps start 2021 . Unless a very significant ressource increase takes place (talking + 30 % or more here) I don't think that I am much off about how their time planning could look like .

    Of course reality may and will differ from the planning :)

    • 505 posts
    April 14, 2019 7:33 AM PDT

    Good video Baz - It is saddening that VR has to push back their Alpha date but understandable.  With Pre-Alpha players they can (and are) controlling their NDAs.  With the number of Alpha players there would be too many players breaking the NDA and posting footage of the incomplete game and likely making statements about the game's "shortcomings" even though it is not in a production stage (not everyone understands that there are 2 more testing phases after Alpha)  There are already people (like nate napalm and a lot more) re-posting dev streams and narrating over the streams without disclaiming that the footage is in PRE-ALPHA, with snips from class reveal notes as though they are the authority on the game... people that don't follow the game closely and just use YouTube as their source of information (which is a LOT of people) look at videos like this and make a decision on the game without even having their own opinion, even if some things were mispoken or purely opinion based; imagine if people like this with a lot of followers actually had access to the game and just gave their personal opinion to influence the masses based on a non-production product?  Baz for instance has a lot of social influence but is fortunately responsible with it and makes disclaimers and clarifications about what is his opinion and what the devs have said.

    Waiting for a more polished test environment is a good idea - I'd rather not have people posting "gameplay" videos when Alpha won't really be anything like what the game will be like at release (or at least it isn't as of today).


    This post was edited by Darch at April 14, 2019 7:37 AM PDT