Not just in PRF, but gaming in general. It's not waiting which is causing my dwindling interest, for I've boundless patience, it's reading these forums. The posts are just wearing me out. The PC and SJW posters, the me me me posters, the hater posters, the fanboy/brown-noser posters, the know-it-all posters. Incredible!
What I've come to realize is that the old-school atmosphere of manners and self-control is gone and will never be restored. That atmosphere is what made EQ a great game, and while it is noble that PRF wishes to restore old-school cooperative mmo gaming, the atmosphere which would make it great will never exist.
In this day and age people, generally, suck and I don't wish to join sucky people in an futile effort to be entertained.
Obviously, if you don't suck, then I'm not referring to you. If you do suck, then you know who you are. You are ruining gaming, and the world!
Let this thread be a testament to my post.
Like anything else, you can grow out of gaming. From a wee kid to the age of maybe... 33, I gamed heavily. It was my main hobby. In the last 6 years, I haven't bought a new game. Just dabbled in older ones here and there. Pantheon is the only game I've dropped cash on in the last half a decade, I think. It's a combination of burn-out, poor practices by gaming publishers/studios, and a little bit of the shift in the overall gaming community that you mention, OP.
Pantheon is sort of my 'last bid' to keep playing games. I don't want to keep playing 20+ year old games forever, and while my hype comes and goes for Pantheon (as expected, since I can't play it yet), I'm hopeful that it will be the last place I can call home in a game, even if it's for 2 hours a week.
I've been there too, but im not going to write off good entertainment before its even out.
Look at the above replies...they are mostly understanding and positive. THAT IS the community you were referring to in EQ back in the day correct? Proof that maybe you could stand to give this game and its community another shot =P
NameTBD said:Not just in PRF, but gaming in general. It's not waiting which is causing my dwindling interest, for I've boundless patience, it's reading these forums. The posts are just wearing me out. The PC and SJW posters, the me me me posters, the hater posters, the fanboy/brown-noser posters, the know-it-all posters. Incredible!
What I've come to realize is that the old-school atmosphere of manners and self-control is gone and will never be restored. That atmosphere is what made EQ a great game, and while it is noble that PRF wishes to restore old-school cooperative mmo gaming, the atmosphere which would make it great will never exist.
In this day and age people, generally, suck and I don't wish to join sucky people in an futile effort to be entertained.
Obviously, if you don't suck, then I'm not referring to you. If you do suck, then you know who you are. You are ruining gaming, and the world!
I can totally understand where you are coming from. Though, what I can say is *better is worth it* It really is. There are a number of lunatics on the forums, both here and elsewhere. But, as in the days of Old Everquest.. most people don’t even post on forums. That was true then and it is true even here. Just remember that the minority of forum hogs/addicts are just that: a very small minority. There are still a lot of good people - they just tend to enjoy playing/waiting for the game rather than posting repetitively on senseless forums.
Syrif said:NameTBD said:Not just in PRF, but gaming in general. It's not waiting which is causing my dwindling interest, for I've boundless patience, it's reading these forums. The posts are just wearing me out. The PC and SJW posters, the me me me posters, the hater posters, the fanboy/brown-noser posters, the know-it-all posters. Incredible!
What I've come to realize is that the old-school atmosphere of manners and self-control is gone and will never be restored. That atmosphere is what made EQ a great game, and while it is noble that PRF wishes to restore old-school cooperative mmo gaming, the atmosphere which would make it great will never exist.
In this day and age people, generally, suck and I don't wish to join sucky people in an futile effort to be entertained.
Obviously, if you don't suck, then I'm not referring to you. If you do suck, then you know who you are. You are ruining gaming, and the world!
I can totally understand where you are coming from. Though, what I can say is *better is worth it* It really is. There are a number of lunatics on the forums, both here and elsewhere. But, as in the days of Old Everquest.. most people don’t even post on forums. That was true then and it is true even here. Just remember that the minority of forum hogs/addicts are just that: a very small minority. There are still a lot of good people - they just tend to enjoy playing/waiting for the game rather than posting repetitively on senseless forums.
Very true , most people who invest and want a game to succeed dont forum post . complainers , post at every turn .
Ah yes, the burn-out to gaming. been there, done that. it'll come back. Internet trolls . . . yeah i geuss i've just come to accept them and am seeing alot of backbone in the VR team sticking to their view of the game also finding myself mature enough to not incite / fuel them and just respond to the core questions however sometimes verry tempting to go into the whining.
Just like in any game, there will be grievers. It's the maturity of the masses that will count the rest can just be ignored. For that reason i'm hoping /ignore will be a feature! :D
When I left EQ with my guild to go to WoW, I wasn't even slightly burned out on EQ. In fact, it was one of the worst decisions we ever made together.
Fast forward to about the WotLK expansion in WoW, and I was starting to not want to log in. I was playing a Priest, and the demands placed on a tank healer who also had to AoE heal sometimes in the kind of gameplay WoW developed into (zerging, basically) just got to me. I got the GL to take me, the usual tanks, to a place with mobs that hit really hard, and worked on getting my HPS up to obscene levels. But keeping it there all the time wasn't fun anymore.
Never felt that with my Cleric in EQ.
One thing I have come to realize, running a YouTube channel, is that some people will be hostile and argumentative just because they can be.
That said, the number of awesome people that are willing to help, compromise, and generally be decent to other human beings, are in far greater numbers than the jerks.
Hang in there - I'm sure once the game fires up the community will rally, and you'll see a lot of great people come out of the woodwork. Don't base your opinions on what the very few say or do, and let it affect how you feel about something. The world is full of great people....the internet though? Not so much.
Stick it out though. There's plenty of us just looking forward to a group-centric and community based game, because the game we like to play consists of helping others and cooperation.
These forums are far more civilized than normal for the internet but yes we do get some nastiness here too. Shrug it off and remember that it is a much smaller percentage than most places where people that don't know each other debate various issues.
I pledged partly to support the game but at least as much for these forums. I have never regretted it - even if Gods forbid the game is never released I will have gotten my money's worth from the time here.
dorotea said:These forums are far more civilized than normal for the internet but yes we do get some nastiness here too. Shrug it off and remember that it is a much smaller percentage than most places where people that don't know each other debate various issues.
I pledged partly to support the game but at least as much for these forums. I have never regretted it - even if Gods forbid the game is never released I will have gotten my money's worth from the time here.
Largely because posts VR or Kilson don't like disappear. These are not free and open forums by any stretch.
Burn out is very real and to give some unsolicited advice I'd say find a new hobby :D I tend to cycle the things I'm interested in. Gaming lately has been really really bad. And good games are even more scarce. With few exceptions it seems gamers have been bent over a barrell by these big companies that put out supbar games and told to like it. The scary part is a lot of folks just take it. I've found its just easier to walk away. There are way to many other things that I can put my effort and time into than crappy games or toxic communities.
I would recommend 2 things for those that experience burnout or melancholia at the state of things: Cut way back on the frequency with which you visit these or any forums and read GameLit or LitRPG
I've found that GameLit really scratches the gaming itch if nothing seems to satisfy
Aleron Kong's The Land: Founding: A LitRPG Saga and Daniel Shinhofen's Gamer for Life (Alpha World Book 1) are good places to start.
You are not alone my friend. Just find something else to occupy your time and before you know it, Alpha will be here!
As someone has spent a lot of time interacting with the community, (and by my post count, you can tell that I have spent more than enough time on these forums,) I can assure you that this is still one of the best if not the best community in gaming. And by best, I mean overall positivity and support. I would not spend so many hours trying to entertain and inform you guys if that was not the case. Try not to lose your sense of perspective. These forums do not represent the entire gaming community, or even the entire Pantheon community. I suggest you go out and interact with people from the community on different platforms - Twitter, Discord, etc. Plus, it's far too easy to focus on just that minority that is loudly negative. That's just human nature. But don't forget to make a conscious effort to recognize when people are positive too. I think you'll find that if you pay attention, the positive outweighs the negative.
Admittedly, these forums are kind of in a weird place right now. Some people are bound by Pre-Alpha NDA, while everyone else is just kinda waiting for new info. That's why all these circular arguments keep popping up. These forums are technically left over from when the developers were looking for feedback on design decisions. But all the good conversations have already been had. So all that's left is meaningless discussions that have no answer, so they eventually spiral out of control. The game is at a point now where it needs less talking and more doing. But of course the majority of the community can't actually help test right now, so they get restless and some just run their mouth to stay occupied. But that won't last forever. The forums will be overhauled this year and my personal prediction is that it will coincide with the launch of Alpha to allow a better platform for everyone to discuss testing. Then I suspect the conversations here will be much more meaningful. I'm not saying it will ever be perfect. I think we all know by now you can never completely avoid negative people. But just keep being patient and don't lose your sense of perspective :)
You have to pick and chose which topics and posts to get involved in. These forums for have been up for like 3 years now? Plenty of people have come and gone, and will continue to do so, all with different opinions. You have to remember that these forums, right now, are (hopefully) a small representation of the games actual player base. Its usually the loud, annoying, opinionated people who posts on forums anyway, not the laid back casual majority.
((Its usually the loud, annoying, opinionated people who posts on forums anyway, not the laid back casual majority. ))
This isn't entirely without basis but I think it is also a bit unfair.
I would prefer to think that:
"Although most of the people that post on the forums are as calm and reasonable as anyone else, forums do tend to attract people with strong opinions and they can occasionally be loud and annoying. The relatively few people that engage in personal attacks and emotional overreaction sometimes drown out the great majority just as a few trolls or very juvenile people can appear to monopolize chat in a MMO, as most of us have unhappily seen. Nonetheless the forums are a great place to see what your fellow pledgers are interested in, and now and then see handy informative posts from Visionary Realms".
((Largely because posts VR or Kilson don't like disappear. These are not free and open forums by any stretch.))
And thank all Gods of Terminus that they are not. These are moderated development forums and we are much better off for that.
Honestly it's better to just relax and take a distance with the forums.
While they can be a wonderfull place, everyone including me are extremely passionnate about their speechs, and most of us are persuaded we are right because of our gaming experience, background, success and failures.
For odd reasons, for most we have relatable experiences but we sum it up as different conclusions, and that's where we usually battle for pretty much nothing. Because let's be realistic, whatever we say here will probably have no influence on the final product and thanks god, no one needs a two headed chimaera unable to sustain it's own weight.
Basically, we are arguing on nothing on the base of nothing, with no result in the end.
So... Take a bit of distance and wash yourself from every stereotype hanging on theses forums, waiting is also easier when you don't think too much about pantheon :).
I agree current marketing and game development are crippling the market, by chance many big editors are seeing a drop in revenue and maybe, it will neuter a part of the market and offer more chances for passionate studios to develop their game far from cash grabs.
zewtastic said:dorotea said:These forums are far more civilized than normal for the internet but yes we do get some nastiness here too. Shrug it off and remember that it is a much smaller percentage than most places where people that don't know each other debate various issues.
I pledged partly to support the game but at least as much for these forums. I have never regretted it - even if Gods forbid the game is never released I will have gotten my money's worth from the time here.
Largely because posts VR or Kilson don't like disappear. These are not free and open forums by any stretch.
Actually, just the ones that break the rules and forum guidelines mate. My opinion has nothing to do with moderating post or threads, it is just because my name is attached to enforcing the rules and guidelines that tend to make some people who get moderated, upset, which is out of my control as it is part of my job and I curently don't have any other mods to help on these forums.
TL;DR - Read the guidelines, follow the rules and nothing gets moderated, I have less work to do and can spend that time enjoying reading content and posts from you guys and everyone is happy.
NameTBD said:
In this day and age people, generally, suck and I don't wish to join sucky people in an futile effort to be entertained.
Obviously, if you don't suck, then I'm not referring to you. If you do suck, then you know who you are. You are ruining gaming, and the world!
Actually it is beyond me why you are still here, if you really think like that.
I am sorry for saying this, but if that is all you can bring to this discussion, you are a part of the problem, just on a different spectrum.
I am sick of hearing that we are better than the others (and vice versa.)
Right now, there are more whiny post from old school players, then from the new generation. What do you guys think will happen when they see all this negativity against them.
Of course, there is some toxicity in the new generation, but holly molly as if we were better in the old days.
If you fail to adapt to the new situation, do not make other people miserable just because you fail to play along with others.
I really hope you will find some likeminded people to play with but please stop to label other people as sucker when right now you are a sucker as well.
And I am totally aware, that my comment probably sucks too so yeah ; )
Ayren said:NameTBD said:
In this day and age people, generally, suck and I don't wish to join sucky people in an futile effort to be entertained.
Obviously, if you don't suck, then I'm not referring to you. If you do suck, then you know who you are. You are ruining gaming, and the world!
Actually it is beyond me why you are still here, if you really think like that.
I am sorry for saying this, but if that is all you can bring to this discussion, you are a part of the problem, just on a different spectrum.
I am sick of hearing that we are better than the others (and vice versa.)
Right now, there are more whiny post from old school players, then from the new generation. Wat do you guys think will happen when they see all this negativity against them.
Of course, there is some toxicity in the new generation, but holly molly as if we were better in the old days.
If you fail to adapt to the new situation, do not make other people miserable just because you fail to play along with others.
I really hope you will find some likeminded people to play with but please stop to label other people as sucker when right now you are a sucker as well.
And I am totally aware, that my comment probably sucks too so yeah ; )
I appreciate you saying this. I of course think that everyone - old veterans and new players alike - are welcome in the community. Both older and younger players can be genuinely excited about the game and contribute to the community in positive ways. So we should focus more on what we have in common. Stereotyping and gatekeeping based on age only does the game harm... Having a "get off my lawn" mentality will only hurt the community in the long run. That honestly is an even greater threat to the overall health of the community than any toxic millenial. Not everyone in the younger generation is self-absorbed, impatient, etc. As someone who is only 25 y/o but grew up with classic MMOs like EverQuest, it has long been my goal to act as a bridge between the two generations in the Pantheon community. Because they are absolutely both needed if the game is to succeed longterm. And from my vantage point in between the two generations, I can tell you without a doubt that there is equal selfishness, impatience, etc. on both sides. So trying to shun people the community based simply on which generation of gamers they belong to is nothing short of foolish and hypocritical. Having a negative, cynical, and jaded outlook about the future of MMO gaming does not help anything. If you actually want a cooperative and uplifting community atmosphere more akin to that of "the good old days," you best start acting as a good example, which doesn't include saying things like "If you do suck, then you know who you are. You are ruining gaming, and the world!"
NameTBD said:Well said my friends. Collectively, your sentiments give hope. Perhaps it is a case of burn-out caused by a minority of posters.
I shall take a break and hang in there. Thanks for the kind words of wisdom.
Give you some advice that in all honesty the whole world could do with. Take a month or so, and just unplug. Shut off the online social media, forums, everything. Just take a breather. It's kind of like a digital detox. You'll feel much better. Helps clear your head of the utter insanity. :)
My advice to anyone looking to have fun in this little hobby of ours is this: When you log on, check your real world luggage at the door. No politics, no religion, no drama. Bring your happy hat and fun times. That's what we're all here for. For everything else that leads to craziness and insanity, you have Twitter.